The real thing to fear here is the normalization of violence. Good perspective in the WP comments: "The truly shocking thing here is that violence - with the real possibility of serious injury - was viewed as appropriate in a situation that was purely logistical. The airline wanted seats for its own employees. This was not an emergency - such as a terrorist attack or a drunk passenger endangering people. The lack of…
You should read "Debt the First 5,000 Years". It's an amazing book, and one of the things the author talks about is how debt requires violence. You can't put a man into debt unless you have the capacity for violence to enforce it. He doesn't pay you back, you break his legs, or take his sons and daughters as slaves. Today we have reduced the violence. Now companies ruin credit, get a Sheriff to evict someone from a h…
A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
481–490 of 549 posts
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#482So many American police officers are violent thugs under a very thin veneer.
Well no one polices the police and there is no repercussion. Its not like the public has any choice. Its a monopoly and will get paid with tax money anyway.
You wouldn't see police acting like that in, say, Germany. So it's not just the structural situation that you describe because that obtains in any country. You would see a scene like that in, say, America, or the Philippines, or many "non-Western" countries.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#483Earlier quoted context omitted.
Application of force is violence, by default. Even if it's just a tiny bit of force. Much more useful would be deescalation and mediation, but that is not the training given to US police.
Yes, application of force is a type of violence. As you point out (as did I), that's not the only option available to police, and is not necessarily the expected result of asking for police assistance. And deescalation and mediation are part of the training given to US police. That said, law enforcement training is not consistent across jurisdictions in the US. Some likely have more training in mediation and deescala…
What other options do the police have beyond violence that the airline does not?
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#484Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reading through the rules, it would appear that you are correct, though it looks like checking in earlier should make it more unlikely "The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment."
I'm not sure the United Conditions of Carriage are really relevant here anyway - if United were to decide to violate their own conditions of carriage, the worst penalty a court would likley invoke would be to consider the whole contract null and void, awarding that passenger a full refund, and maybe paying for a hotel (damages).
They could very well, unless otherwise restricted by law, apply punative damages as well as pain and suffering beyond that.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#485Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think United were wrong here (maybe not legally) but morally and, even from their self-interest they took a major PR hit. People involved in this should be getting termination letters immediately. However, I am curious. Once they made the decision to remove him. How could they have done so if he didn't want to move? A taser?
Simple: they announce that the plane is not taking off until enough seats open up. Then just wait. Sure, the flight would be delayed, perhaps significantly, but the impact of that would pale in comparison to this horrendous PR controversy.
It costs a lot of money to idle a plane at the gate and even more if the crew times out and the flight gets cancelled. No-one is going to do that because of one difficult person
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#486Earlier quoted context omitted.
Raise the offer from $800, which is a low amount for an airline overbooking.
From what I've read. Passengers offered $1500 to leave but the employees scoffed at that. Not sure how true though.
I think the max that an airline can compensate people for an oversold flight is $1000 plus lodging.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#487My predictions: 1. There will be no personal consequences for any of the belligerents involved in this, including the airline employees and police officers. Nobody is going to get fired. 2. The victim will receive no compensation for his injuries, instead will be further victimized in the courts. 3. There will be no business cost to United. They are already known as one of the most awful airlines in the world, and pe…
I think you're wrong about #3. Quantized at the micro-level (individuals may not choose differently), it's certainly unlikely that people will suddenly change their patterns in large droves immediately. However that might also still result in people deciding not to fly or switch loyalties where they are flexible (ie, someone having lots of miles in several air programs without any restriction to use UA flights). Stoc…
May be an opportunity for another airline to offer up "conversion points" for people to switch over, with a promise, not to have you forcibly removed from a plane after boarding for overbooking (or in this case, similar reasons).
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#488The real thing to fear here is the normalization of violence. Good perspective in the WP comments: "The truly shocking thing here is that violence - with the real possibility of serious injury - was viewed as appropriate in a situation that was purely logistical. The airline wanted seats for its own employees. This was not an emergency - such as a terrorist attack or a drunk passenger endangering people. The lack of…
Exactly. Lining up intellectuals, journalists and others against the wall is one fewer, finite normalizations away from occurring.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#489Buried at the bottom: > "The airline eventually cleared everyone from the plane, Bridges said, and did not let them back on until the man was removed a second time — in a stretcher." My reading is they beat him so badly they had to put him in a stretcher. Is that right?
He was fine, before they finally got him out he was running up and down the plane.
Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off
#490Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are legally entitled to cash compensation over an airline voucher -- you just have to ask for it and a lot of people either don't know that or just don't do it. Also the rebooking is not necessarily on the same airline if they don't have a similar flight available that day but others do.
This is only true if you are involuntarily kicked off...if you volunteer you get whatever they agreed to give you.
Yeah, good point that cash must be explicitly requested in advance for voluntary denied boarding vs involuntary. The Points Guy has a pretty good guide for VDB.
https://thepointsguy.com/2010/08/points-guy-pointer-anatomy-...