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What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

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181–190 of 327 posts

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> discounting welfare issues Well, that's the whole point. I thought you were going to say that in the UK, you can't just chop down a tree on your land - there are often legal barriers preventing the felling of listed trees!

Being listed would seem to imply a tree was specifically selected by a town for historical or aesthetic qualities. They would seem to be on conservation or public land most of the time, no?

It varies by region. In some places any tree with a trunk radius > 4" is listed automatically, for example.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#182
post #71

This is not a problem caused by antibiotics. Is a problem of genetic nature that happens because broilers are inbreed for growing big and fast. The same birds in true range with plenty of food would face exactly the same problem, with or without antibiotics. They are too heavy and often tend to have cardiac diseases, but they live short lives and are delicious so they are the most sucessful bird in the planet. On the…

"the most successful bird on the planet" is an interesting line considering that they are all killed and eaten. I guess the obvious line of reasoning is to talk about how GDP is less than perfect for measuring economic success, etc. Sometimes large numbers are not a sign of success.

Not all are killed. Millions of captive chickens live much longer and peaceful lives than its wild counterparts (They do not need to care for the danger of being burned alive in an indonesian fireforest for example). Many laying and pet hens die for natural causes after ten years or so roaming around some garden or farm. This is a lot of sun-bathing, clucking and scratching time to enjoy for a middle sized bird with plenty of predators that normally would not reach its first birdday. Even broilers live longer than most wild chicks.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plants react to things that can harm them. Pain, however, is something that it requires neurons to experience.

A rash rejection of dialog. Plants are very lowly sentient through structures that are the plant-counterparts to animalian neurons. They communicate with other plants and they sense what can be described as "pain." But, I don't think arguing on the sentience of an unprotected kingdom will further this discussion. The discussion on animal welfare seems to be an emotional one alone. As long as our mirror neurons aren't…

Ive always found in the quieter parts of Silicon Valley and areas, there does exist a merge between the technological and something else. I've seen this something else be called luck, magic, parapsychology.. Many names. But I've also found that it is indeed whispered and talked of behind the scenes.

I've learned these arts as well, to hear the ebb and flow of what goes on around me. Many times, I can feel the data going on the wire, and the emotion it carries. Standing in our data center's networking room, I can feel thousands of voices, like a cacophony all unawares that they too are projecting emotions. Some of us can hear.

But in learning how to hear, I also learned how to listen to other things we wouldn't normally consider sentient. Plants. I found I've been able to hear them, and their talk. It's not words per se, but more of word-pictures. And the more I do so, I come to the understanding that Chomsky was indeed correct, but also wrong: emotion is the underlying language.

How do I prove this? I don't. I can't, at this time. These techniques were taught to me, along with my innate abilities. I doubt even an fMRI would be able to pick up on these, until long after my brain processed them. But what then?

I've also been attempting to find a way to connect whatever that emotion energy I'm feeling is. If it's not matter, it must be energy.. or something else. I'm not ready to say there's a something else yet... So it must be a type of energy that we can measure, no? I know I've pissed off enough other pagans and occultists, but my primary goal is to bridge these two disparate (scientific vs esoteric) into a unified theory. Or barring that, a way to "view" this energy. Because once we can sense it, we can manipulate.

But alas, I figure I'll be downvoted or worse yet, ignored. I certainly don't hold a publicly acceptable view for sure.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plants react to things that can harm them. Pain, however, is something that it requires neurons to experience.

A rash rejection of dialog. Plants are very lowly sentient through structures that are the plant-counterparts to animalian neurons. They communicate with other plants and they sense what can be described as "pain." But, I don't think arguing on the sentience of an unprotected kingdom will further this discussion. The discussion on animal welfare seems to be an emotional one alone. As long as our mirror neurons aren't…

I disagree with you quite strongly on this (and I don't believe there really is enough of a dialog to 'rashly reject'), however, if plants do indeed 'feel pain', so what? Humans can live off fallen-fruit and seeds, but the acreage required would prohibit human populations above hunter-gatherer densities, and in almost all areas of the planet this method of eating would produce severe malnutrition.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the most successful bird on the planet" is an interesting line considering that they are all killed and eaten. I guess the obvious line of reasoning is to talk about how GDP is less than perfect for measuring economic success, etc. Sometimes large numbers are not a sign of success.

Not all are killed. Millions of captive chickens live much longer and peaceful lives than its wild counterparts (They do not need to care for the danger of being burned alive in an indonesian fireforest for example). Many laying and pet hens die for natural causes after ten years or so roaming around some garden or farm. This is a lot of sun-bathing, clucking and scratching time to enjoy for a middle sized bird with…

Agreed. Folks forget that the wild population, if stable, implies that almost all hatched chicks are horribly killed and eaten by predators in their first year.

Of course the moral issue of "should I cynically raise billions of birds because they're tasty" is real.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rash rejection of dialog. Plants are very lowly sentient through structures that are the plant-counterparts to animalian neurons. They communicate with other plants and they sense what can be described as "pain." But, I don't think arguing on the sentience of an unprotected kingdom will further this discussion. The discussion on animal welfare seems to be an emotional one alone. As long as our mirror neurons aren't…

I disagree with you quite strongly on this (and I don't believe there really is enough of a dialog to 'rashly reject'), however, if plants do indeed 'feel pain', so what? Humans can live off fallen-fruit and seeds, but the acreage required would prohibit human populations above hunter-gatherer densities, and in almost all areas of the planet this method of eating would produce severe malnutrition.

This is what I'm arguing for: "so what if they feel pain?"

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> poor bird was encouraged to grow in an unhealthy manner The bird was not "encouraged to grow", it was forcefully bred by a corporation that treated it like trash to increase their financial gains... >> I wonder if it was painful for the bird I seems very safe to assume that it didn't have a remotely pleasant or normal life...

> it was forcefully bred by a corporation that treated it like trash to increase their financial gains The same could be said for plants.

I hear this kind of argument pretty often. It's bizarre, because debunking it is pretty trivial. Even if we assume destroying plants is 100% equivalent to destroying animals (this is obviously a position not many would agree with), destroying animals is worse because animals require plant food to grow. And since animals burn calories that don't go directly to growth, it's an inefficient means of producing food (beef is especially inefficient).

So the choice is: destroy a plant to eat directly OR destroy an animal who needed n plants destroyed to grow sufficiently large to eat. Option A definitionally requires less destruction.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#188
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just the tip of the iceberg in how animals are treated. Industrial meat production practically runs its margins on increasing the suffering of animals in a manner that narrowly avoids this kind of visible anomalies in the product. As many others have noted in the past, slave labor and concentration camps operated on a similar industrial calculus of forcibly squeezing out value from living beings before puttin…

What is the biologic incentive for a homo sapien to give up 100% of all animal based foods based upon the pain and suffering of some animals used for food?

Humans have more or less empathy for other animals. Some humans (me included) feel enough empathy for other animals, that they choose not to eat them, in order to reduce their suffering. I assume empathy is important evolutionarily to humans to ensure the society survives.

As to "why have empathy for non-human animals?": I don't know, but I guess having a somewhat-arbitrary rule of which animals it's ok to eat, and which not, can lead to a certain amount of congnitive dissonance.

There are also health issues with meat, that don't exist (or don't exist to the same extent) with a vegetarian diet.

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#189
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a large contingent of dark meat eaters here in North America as well, and we also find it a mystery.

As well, you have really mess up to overcook thighs. They are one of the easiest/tastiest things to cook over charcoal. Meanwhile, a minute too long and you've ruined white meat. I've since learned that the guidelines for cooking white meat are very conservative and I can cook breasts to a lower temp than I'd thought[1], but then I have the opposite problem - some white meat eaters seem to prefer overcooked meat. [1]…

I won't forget the first time I served a perfectly cooked breast to my sister-in-law. Her reply: "it's too juicy."

Re: What is this colored fiber in my chicken?

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rash rejection of dialog. Plants are very lowly sentient through structures that are the plant-counterparts to animalian neurons. They communicate with other plants and they sense what can be described as "pain." But, I don't think arguing on the sentience of an unprotected kingdom will further this discussion. The discussion on animal welfare seems to be an emotional one alone. As long as our mirror neurons aren't…

Ive always found in the quieter parts of Silicon Valley and areas, there does exist a merge between the technological and something else. I've seen this something else be called luck, magic, parapsychology.. Many names. But I've also found that it is indeed whispered and talked of behind the scenes. I've learned these arts as well, to hear the ebb and flow of what goes on around me. Many times, I can feel the data go…

From my viewpoint, the practitioners have all but secluded themselves for the time being, away from all public scrutiny. Very seldom do I hear of them mentioned, and of those very few are intelligent.

And I believe this is what could hold you back, atleast in public acceptance (if you're even aiming for this -- and not just discovery among the "initiated").

I'm sorry I can't offer you anymore words, getting a taste of the esoteric after all of this time away has left me in shock.

So, may you succeed in your journey and if there's anyway I may assist, I would oblige.

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