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Spring vs. Java EE

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Re: Spring vs. Java EE

#31

Post by raphaelj »

gbersac wrote: post #29
neverminder wrote: post #27

> for example here’s a copy from Lightbend (the company behind Scala, Play & Lagom) I use Play 2 for most of my projects and frankly knowing what I know about Spring and J2EE (even though having never worked with them for the same reason) I couldn't really think of any reason to choose either of these outdated behemoths. With something like Play 2 and Slick/JOOQ you could run circles around these two.

Same here, Scala rocks ! Too bad play 2 is now using guice and promots runtime dependency injection like in Java world. Compile dependency injection is much better, I fear they'll try to mimick spring more and more in order to attract java crowds.

I got the same feeling here. Implicits in Scala can act as statically checked dependency injection, I don't know why they are going for this runtime dependant injection instead.

Re: Spring vs. Java EE

#32

Post by jacques_chester »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #23
jacques_chester wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think maybe this comes down to the kind of injection. If you rely on variable or setter injection, you can easily create a kind of dark matter that invisibly warps the flexibility of the project. I and others have generally found that using Constructor injection greatly decouples a design and simplifies testing. And the Spring team have been saying so for at least as long as I've paid attention to the question[0]:…

Nope. There is no difference between injection types from the coupling perspective, simply because neither blocks anything bad from happening in your architecture. There are reasons to prefer constructor injection in many cases, but it has nothing to do with modularity or coupling.

I disagree.

Constructor injection in Spring is more test-friendly; in turn that tends to allow us the liberty of more aggressively modularising the design. With other injection types either more bookkeeping is required to cleanly set up tests; or alternatively, "unit" testing becomes more integration-esque.

It's a second-order effect felt in the many small decisions that lead one to the mudpit.

That's why I used the analogy of dark matter. It's not directly observed, but it has gravity.

Re: Spring vs. Java EE

#33

Post by edem »

neverminder wrote: post #27

> for example here’s a copy from Lightbend (the company behind Scala, Play & Lagom) I use Play 2 for most of my projects and frankly knowing what I know about Spring and J2EE (even though having never worked with them for the same reason) I couldn't really think of any reason to choose either of these outdated behemoths. With something like Play 2 and Slick/JOOQ you could run circles around these two.

You call Spring an outdated behemoth yet you have never worked with it. I've worked with EJB, Spring, Play, Dropwizard and a bunch of other stuff an I can tell that the current version of Spring is cutting edge and since they introduced java-based configuration you can really do stuff with it without the hassle which comes with other frameworks. Make yourself a favour and don't make a fool of yourself by bashing something you haven't even tried.

Re: Spring vs. Java EE

#34

Post by folli »

If I want to build a web app from scratch which should have some basic features (user identification, some standard level of security, REST interface, database integration) and I have some okay knowledge of Java (mainly CLI applications and some Android programming), which framework would you recommend for me to get started? I'm afraid to get lost in the details too quickly, so a framework that provides a working example which can than be adjusted to my needs would be very welcome. Any suggestions?

Re: Spring vs. Java EE

#35

Post by spiralpolitik »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #23
jacques_chester wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think maybe this comes down to the kind of injection. If you rely on variable or setter injection, you can easily create a kind of dark matter that invisibly warps the flexibility of the project. I and others have generally found that using Constructor injection greatly decouples a design and simplifies testing. And the Spring team have been saying so for at least as long as I've paid attention to the question[0]:…

Nope. There is no difference between injection types from the coupling perspective, simply because neither blocks anything bad from happening in your architecture. There are reasons to prefer constructor injection in many cases, but it has nothing to do with modularity or coupling.

With Constructor based injection its easier to see layering and coupling issues as once your constructor gets more that 3-4 parameters then it starts becoming blindingly obvious that the class has too many dependencies and needs to be refactored. This helps keep the bad out of the architecture.

The main reason to favor constructor based injection is that it stops objects becoming 'live' in an inconsistent state. I've seen actual production issues with setter based injection that can only be explained by the object being available for use before all the setters have been called.

Re: Spring vs. Java EE

#36

Post by Joeri »

folli wrote: post #34

If I want to build a web app from scratch which should have some basic features (user identification, some standard level of security, REST interface, database integration) and I have some okay knowledge of Java (mainly CLI applications and some Android programming), which framework would you recommend for me to get started? I'm afraid to get lost in the details too quickly, so a framework that provides a working exa…

Play framework is easy to get started with if you just go by their documentation. I switched from php to play and was happy with the result. Admittedly, I did not try spring, so I don't know how it compares.

Re: Spring vs. Java EE

#37

Post by gresrun »

folli wrote: post #34

If I want to build a web app from scratch which should have some basic features (user identification, some standard level of security, REST interface, database integration) and I have some okay knowledge of Java (mainly CLI applications and some Android programming), which framework would you recommend for me to get started? I'm afraid to get lost in the details too quickly, so a framework that provides a working exa…

Dropwizard http://www.dropwizard.io/1.1.0/docs/

Re: Spring vs. Java EE

#38

Post by [deleted] »

folli wrote: post #34

If I want to build a web app from scratch which should have some basic features (user identification, some standard level of security, REST interface, database integration) and I have some okay knowledge of Java (mainly CLI applications and some Android programming), which framework would you recommend for me to get started? I'm afraid to get lost in the details too quickly, so a framework that provides a working exa…

[deleted]

Re: Spring vs. Java EE

#39

Post by andrewwharton »

folli wrote: post #34

If I want to build a web app from scratch which should have some basic features (user identification, some standard level of security, REST interface, database integration) and I have some okay knowledge of Java (mainly CLI applications and some Android programming), which framework would you recommend for me to get started? I'm afraid to get lost in the details too quickly, so a framework that provides a working exa…

I'd recommend Grails. https://grails.org/

You use Groovy, but it's pretty similar to Java and there's plenty of resources to bring you up to speed.

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