Live data from Hacker News

Textbook manifesto (2016)

greenteapress.com

71–80 of 166 posts

Re: Textbook manifesto (2016)

#71
post #32

In many European countries, this problem was resolved by what I feel is mostly student pressure. Our student union (for lack of better word) owned printing equipment and worked with most professors to do exactly what's suggested in this article: most professors wrote their own books (not 140 pages, though). Most of my textbooks were between 2 and 7 EUR, which I'm led to believe is approximately at cost. Occasionally,…

Italian, and fellow european here. When I started university (1999, I think) there were still plenty of Big Expensive Books (I recall my Chemistry one was like that).

The "student pressure" materialized in the form of doing illegal copies of the books. This used to be totally illegal, but incredibly easy.

At some point the legislative environment changed so that photocopying up to a decent percentage of the books was considered legit. Suddenly, low price books started to bubble up everywhere.

So, if you don't have this yet, start lobbying your parliament for a "fair use" textbook copying policy, publishers will follow.

Re: Textbook manifesto (2016)

#72
post #32

In many European countries, this problem was resolved by what I feel is mostly student pressure. Our student union (for lack of better word) owned printing equipment and worked with most professors to do exactly what's suggested in this article: most professors wrote their own books (not 140 pages, though). Most of my textbooks were between 2 and 7 EUR, which I'm led to believe is approximately at cost. Occasionally,…

Whenever I was in an international class, the study language was english, the textbooks were American. Extremely dense and horrible to read tombs. In my early courses most of the material was in swedish. Textbooks were a tenth of the size and had at least some personality. Some of them were quite enjoyable. Those were readable.

Re: Textbook manifesto (2016)

#73
post #54
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been a US citizen for all of my 60 years, and often wondering "why things so f ked up?", I've come to understand or believe this about the US: If it makes money, it's good, regardless of whether it's good or bad for people or the environment. Once something is making money, it becomes a god-given right (cheap labor, insurance companies as health-care middlemen, etc). If you propose something that inhibits the…

Being opposed by elected officials is one thing. What truly baffles me is being opposed by the very people that are adversely affected. Many policies are literally convincing poor families that it is in their best interests to help support the frail legacy of billionaires. How!?

Poor people are lifted out of poverty when they get jobs. Jobs are created by incentivizing job creators.

Re: Textbook manifesto (2016)

#75
Back in my student days there were really extensive textbooks that no one of us read and short brochures on the subject published by university that was the real source of knowledge and how to apply it in practice.

Re: Textbook manifesto (2016)

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many students already do this. It's not uncommon for students to not buy a single textbook in a semester. I never bought a textbook unless I absolutely completely needed it. Otherwise I did anything possible to get it if I needed it before outright buying the book. In some cases just using Google was enough for the class. Especially for most of my programming courses. Textbooks are so expensive, and half of the tim…

I had a different experience in school, I kept the text book and re-read it. Eventually I had read every text book that I kept (although I did not keep them all) at least once and some of them several times. In my "first" senior year I discovered it was really useful to re-read a text book about a year after I had finished the class, apparently a lot of stuff had settled out by then and since it wasn't coming at me a…

  >> re-read a text book about a year after I had finished the class...
  >> it really helped me deepen my understanding of the topic generally.
As an endorsement of this comment, 'ChuckMcM has the deepest/broadest knowledge of an enormous range of hardware/engineering issues of anyone I am familiar with who posts frequently on HN.

Re: Textbook manifesto (2016)

#78
post #54
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been a US citizen for all of my 60 years, and often wondering "why things so f ked up?", I've come to understand or believe this about the US: If it makes money, it's good, regardless of whether it's good or bad for people or the environment. Once something is making money, it becomes a god-given right (cheap labor, insurance companies as health-care middlemen, etc). If you propose something that inhibits the…

Being opposed by elected officials is one thing. What truly baffles me is being opposed by the very people that are adversely affected. Many policies are literally convincing poor families that it is in their best interests to help support the frail legacy of billionaires. How!?

Maybe the people don't agree with you about what's in their best interests. You may believe that getting money for yourself regardless of any other consideration is the "correct" way to vote, others may disagree.

Re: Textbook manifesto (2016)

#79

Textbooks are flat out unnecessary. The notes on the board should be enough to understand the material, and the teacher can either write their own problem sets or copy them from somewhere and put them online. There's just no excuse to require a textbook for a class - it means the teacher is unable to communicate the material effectively and needs the students to read it on their own, can't be bothered to write or cop…

I disagree fairly strongly. Maybe this is reasonable for lower level courses, but in students' third or fourth year of study it seems short-sighted to expect the bulk of their learning to happen in live face-to-face lectures. Requiring them to learn independently, be it from prerecorded lectures or textbooks, allows classes to cover a lot more ground and (importantly) save lecturer face-time for the task it's actuall…

>in students' third or fourth year of study it seems short-sighted to expect the bulk of students' learning to happen in live face-to-face lectures.

I'm about to graduate a 4-year Computer Science program. It hasn't generally been necessary in any classes so far to get additional information outside the lectures from the textbooks for me, besides in one online class where there were no lectures, or an instance where the specifics of the virtual machine's language you had to write a compiler for were specified in the textbook - written by the teacher, but free digitally from the campus library, so no big objection in that instance aside from that not being mentioned in the syllabus, and that he could've just put all that in the text file where all the lab-section assignments were defined. But back on track, the general learning of the concept of compilation/parsing/etc occurred in class, and you applied it there. Your notes and the task description were enough.

>Expecting students to learn independently, be it from prerecorded lectures or textbooks, allows classes to cover a lot more ground and (importantly) save lecturer face-time for the task it's actually best suited for: reacting to students' individual needs.

Posting the notes online is great and often necessary, as it was in my algorithms class last semester where long algorithm pseudocode was in the notes, but the way the class worked was that everything was explained in-class, with the premade notes plus running trough things on the chalk board, and only what was in the notes was what you were responsible for. It was an effective format.

>save lecturer face-time for the task it's actually best suited for: reacting to students' individual needs.

People asked questions if they had any, and more explanation would follow, and it wasn't a problem. Taking notes on paper while listening to the lecture in real time has been shown to be very effective compared to alternatives, so using lecture time on that is probably better than leaving any concepts to be learned primarily by textbook reading.

>students can learn at their own pace.

Lecture notes being posted beforehand, as it was in that algorithms class, works for people who feel they're struggling and need to read over the notes before class, and the notes are always there later if you need to review something. Though, the student will have to resist not writing notes just because the notes are already there - aside from the audio-to-paper process's effectiveness in learning, additional explanation/metaphores/comments will be given, especially in response to questions asked. I've almost never seen it be the case that one person holds up a class with questions everyone else knows the answer to - often many others were wondering the same thing, or the answer adds more even if you thought you already knew everything about that specific point. I also think enforcing a certain pace is good - it's happened that I've read on subjects on my own and forgot parts due to going "too fast," but that's never happened in a college class, so it seems like a tradeoff of classes feeling annoyingly slow sometimes.

Re: Textbook manifesto (2016)

#80
post #32

In many European countries, this problem was resolved by what I feel is mostly student pressure. Our student union (for lack of better word) owned printing equipment and worked with most professors to do exactly what's suggested in this article: most professors wrote their own books (not 140 pages, though). Most of my textbooks were between 2 and 7 EUR, which I'm led to believe is approximately at cost. Occasionally,…

Whenever I was in an international class, the study language was english, the textbooks were American. Extremely dense and horrible to read tombs. In my early courses most of the material was in swedish. Textbooks were a tenth of the size and had at least some personality. Some of them were quite enjoyable. Those were readable.

s/tombs/tomes/ [0]

[0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tome

Post reply on HN