Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly, I'd go further and say that if a particular technique is patented and cannot be matched by a related technique, giving a permanent unfair advantage, it is up to the community to change the proof of work and work around the advantage imposed by a state monopoly.
Then Bitcoin has to hard fork every time someone comes up with a new patentable idea. I don't see why people think mining must be fair. It only has to not become completely centralized.
Bitcoin's ASICBOOST Problem Explained [pdf]
21–30 of 131 posts
Re: Bitcoin's ASICBOOST Problem Explained [pdf]
#22Some context: http://hackingdistributed.com/2017/04/05/bitcoin-drama-respo...
>2. If ASICBOOST was actually used, we'd see ample evidence on the blockchain.
The covert form of ASICBOOST (where they don't use the version field, the form that was only recently publicly discovered) would only show up as a higher than usual number of empty blocks or blocks with reordered or missing transactions (depending on how the attacker implemented it; it's not necessarily both).
>3. ... As you can also examine for yourself, the transactions are ordered essentially by fee-per-byte, which is not what we would see if they were shuffled to create collisions.
I find it extremely disingenuous that the author only focuses on looking for reordered transactions and ignores the often-noticed unusual number of empty blocks that Antpool mines[0], and the article reaches absurdity when the author claims that the lack of reordered transactions means there's absolutely nothing to worry about.
>4. Building more efficient mining chips is what miners are supposed to do, as it secures the blockchain. Framing an optimization as an attack is disingenuous. Going from 28nm to 16nm was not an attack on the network. Better mining algorithms have never been considered an attack.
If for example a mining "optimization" encouraged every miner to mine only empty blocks, then calling it an attack doesn't sound out of place. An optimization that only often encourages miners to make empty blocks isn't categorically different.
>7. Segwit is being offered as a solution to ASICBOOST. Yet Segwit has at best a tenuous connection as a response to ASICBOOST mining. There are countless other, non-controversial solutions that can disable ASICBOOST, should one choose (wrongly) to do so.
Greg Maxwell's very post announcing the issue introduces a fix for the covert form of ASICBOOST that does not involve implementing SegWit!
[0] https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/50184/why-does-a... http://www.livebitcoinnews.com/antpool-generating-large-amou...
Re: Bitcoin's ASICBOOST Problem Explained [pdf]
#23Wasn't the entire point of picking SHA-256 to both check the integrity of the existing ledger (why it's a hash) AND as a proof of work lottery? The "problem" being that instead of being a proof of actual work, shortcuts in the work were found. It seems then that a good solution would be to force many different types of proof of work. Different basis of hashes are obvious, but maybe some type of actual work every so o…
The problem with the proof of work is that the machinery became dependent on the selection of transactions in the block. A "standard" miner does not have this dependency. It's not a problem (depending on who you ask) that an optimization was found, the amount of work expended is still the same. It's not clear that switching proof of works would eliminate this class of concern. It's also clear that eliminating this cl…
Most miners have been supportive of SegWit for at least a year, see the HK agreement: https://medium.com/@bitcoinroundtable/bitcoin-roundtable-con... The agreement was that they'd support it if it came with a 2mb hardfork, and it never did. Sergio Lerner released segwit2mb recently, which the miners support, but many Core devs were vocal about their opposition to that.
Re: Bitcoin's ASICBOOST Problem Explained [pdf]
#24Just to point out that SegWit is everything but "already adopted in the industry". It turns out that SegWit is the solution promoted by the developers of bitcoin core to allow for bigger blocks, and solve some issues like transactions maleability. It's more than 10 000 lines of code highly controversial because they require... A soft fork, and will change bitcoin in a fundamental ways. Not to add that a company calle…
Sigh
> 10 000 lines of code highly controversial because they require... A soft fork, and will change bitcoin in a fundamental ways
Most of those lines of code are tests. It would be nice for you to say why SegWit is controversial, beyond being proposed around the same time that fees got high.
Bitcoin has had soft forks before. This one will do great many great things for transaction throughput and privacy.
> "Blockstream" have paid almost every developers of bitcoin core to push Segwit without a clear consensus from the community
Blockstream employed 5(?) Core devs, some of them part-time.
> Worse, this company actually support the huge censorship happening in bitcointalk and r/bitcoin
Censorship is horrible, but do you have proof that Blockstream supports it?
> 75 millions from AXA
Yes, they received funds from a bank. But what matters about code is what the code does, not who paid for it. Bitcoin is open source, so you can inspect what's going on. If you have legitimate economic or technical objections to SegWit, I'd love to hear them. If you're spouting FUD, then go back to /r/btc.
Re: Bitcoin's ASICBOOST Problem Explained [pdf]
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with the proof of work is that the machinery became dependent on the selection of transactions in the block. A "standard" miner does not have this dependency. It's not a problem (depending on who you ask) that an optimization was found, the amount of work expended is still the same. It's not clear that switching proof of works would eliminate this class of concern. It's also clear that eliminating this cl…
> It's also clear that eliminating this class of problem is not in the interest of the miners, hence the opposition to SegWit Most miners have been supportive of SegWit for at least a year, see the HK agreement: https://medium.com/@bitcoinroundtable/bitcoin-roundtable-con... The agreement was that they'd support it if it came with a 2mb hardfork, and it never did. Sergio Lerner released segwit2mb recently, which the…
Re: Bitcoin's ASICBOOST Problem Explained [pdf]
#26Just to point out that SegWit is everything but "already adopted in the industry". It turns out that SegWit is the solution promoted by the developers of bitcoin core to allow for bigger blocks, and solve some issues like transactions maleability. It's more than 10 000 lines of code highly controversial because they require... A soft fork, and will change bitcoin in a fundamental ways. Not to add that a company calle…
Just recently, someone in the ecosystem that I've known since the beginning of my time with Bitcoin came out in support of Blockstream and Segwit with a backing of other Canadian support.
https://medium.com/@francispouliot/canadian-bitcoin-economic...
I don't know what to make of it all. I spoke with him a bit and he seems to believe that those pushing against segwit are paid by ASICboosters in China because they stand to make $100,000,000/yearly from their (now not so secret) advantage.
In any case, I just wanted to add that I'm more confused than ever and things are very unclear.
Re: Bitcoin's ASICBOOST Problem Explained [pdf]
#27Just to point out that SegWit is everything but "already adopted in the industry". It turns out that SegWit is the solution promoted by the developers of bitcoin core to allow for bigger blocks, and solve some issues like transactions maleability. It's more than 10 000 lines of code highly controversial because they require... A soft fork, and will change bitcoin in a fundamental ways. Not to add that a company calle…
- Segwit actualy block harmful form of ASICBOOST
- by "growing majority" you mean handful of chinese miners and 2% of nodes (http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/softwar...)
Re: Bitcoin's ASICBOOST Problem Explained [pdf]
#28Wasn't the entire point of picking SHA-256 to both check the integrity of the existing ledger (why it's a hash) AND as a proof of work lottery? The "problem" being that instead of being a proof of actual work, shortcuts in the work were found. It seems then that a good solution would be to force many different types of proof of work. Different basis of hashes are obvious, but maybe some type of actual work every so o…
> It seems then that a good solution would be to force many different types of proof of work. This would create many more opportunities for finding shortcuts like ASCIBOOST. Some of them might be much worse.
I get that randomly throwing stuff together isn't favoured (like TLS's PRF SHA1+MD5 construction). But is there any actual work where requiring 2 separate full checks to be worse than just one? That is, needing to verify MD5 plus SHA1 independently.
Re: Bitcoin's ASICBOOST Problem Explained [pdf]
#29Just to point out that SegWit is everything but "already adopted in the industry". It turns out that SegWit is the solution promoted by the developers of bitcoin core to allow for bigger blocks, and solve some issues like transactions maleability. It's more than 10 000 lines of code highly controversial because they require... A soft fork, and will change bitcoin in a fundamental ways. Not to add that a company calle…
Re: Bitcoin's ASICBOOST Problem Explained [pdf]
#30Just to point out that SegWit is everything but "already adopted in the industry". It turns out that SegWit is the solution promoted by the developers of bitcoin core to allow for bigger blocks, and solve some issues like transactions maleability. It's more than 10 000 lines of code highly controversial because they require... A soft fork, and will change bitcoin in a fundamental ways. Not to add that a company calle…