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How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

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Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#61

Post by devoply »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #59

A: you hire young one that have no idea what they're doing and jump into problems both feet without thinking a path ahead and for every programmer claims to work that much, you also get two of them complaining on the costant shit the overworked one produces and have to fix strange bug half their time eventually the software becomes a mess of tangled issues and advancement grinds to an halt irregardless of amount of t…

There may be a few exceptions, but by and large a young inexperienced programmer's 80 hours will be worth an experienced programmer's 40 hours... plus the cost of the fact that the inexperienced programmer will make mistakes which will cause your code to quickly become unmanageable without oversight. Churning out code is quite a bit different than churning out good code.

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#62

Post by tensor »

houst0n_ wrote: post #12
balls187 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Running teams of contractors for years, I disagree it's uncommon. I let my guys do whatever they want as long as the work is being delivered. I agree with this statement. I would amend it to say "As long as the work they signed up for is being delivered."

Who is 'they' in that case? They for me is whoever is paying us to help them with their business. If it's the contractors/team members then no. Ive unfortunately had several highly paid (4 figures uk/day) contractors who think themselves above certain tasks, or who refuse to do anything they didn't agree with who seem surprised when they get told to fuck off. You're an overpaid contract dev and you're refusing to imp…

I downvoted you for arrogance. You obviously think your are better than those you "manage." Are you technical? Can you sling assembly? Ok, what about C? C++ maybe? I'm guessing you can't do any of that. Can you back up your talk?

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#63

Post by tensor »

xyzzy4 wrote: post #7

To answer the actual question: 1. Pay your programmers per hour, and pay them very well. For example many people who are paid $200/hour would work 80 hours per week. 2. Provide free taxis or have easy public transportation to their homes. 3. Offer to pay for their children's daycare if they work extra hours. 4. Provide free food delivery from nearby restaurants.

Unfortunately you are not representative of the market rate for salaried employees. Smart tech companies don't hire contractors at such an unreasonable price. They just hire another employee.

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#65

Post by EliRivers »

solipsism wrote: post #53
Consultant32452 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty SOP for the video game industry: low wages and insane work hours.

No it's not. Infrequent "crunch time" is the norm in the video game industry, with regular hours outside of crunch time (if you're lucky enough to be employed at that time). Standard expectations of 12 hour days is most certainly not the norm.

I don't want to misread "if you're lucky enough to be employed at that time"; are you saying that the games industry now hires labour for crunch time and then fires everyone afterwards?

The games industry has had a poor reputation for a long time but I don't want to unfairly interpret people if things are better these days.

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#66

Post by Sorreah »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #59

A: you hire young one that have no idea what they're doing and jump into problems both feet without thinking a path ahead and for every programmer claims to work that much, you also get two of them complaining on the costant shit the overworked one produces and have to fix strange bug half their time eventually the software becomes a mess of tangled issues and advancement grinds to an halt irregardless of amount of t…

My last job was exactly that. I was dropped in as an almost-30 year old, working with young 20 year olds still in school.

I was fired a few months later, with the main reason being that I usually left the office 9 or 10 hours after coming in and only occasionally worked the 12+ hour days that the rest did.

With a small codebase and self contained projects, I can't really say quality suffered. Only the employees.

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#67

Post by [deleted] »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #59

A: you hire young one that have no idea what they're doing and jump into problems both feet without thinking a path ahead and for every programmer claims to work that much, you also get two of them complaining on the costant shit the overworked one produces and have to fix strange bug half their time eventually the software becomes a mess of tangled issues and advancement grinds to an halt irregardless of amount of t…

[deleted]

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#68

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

Work or sitting at their desk? (or staying in office doing 'stuff'). From my experience and some studies knowledge workers peak at around 30-35 hours a week.

Astonishingly still many client CEOs ask me how they can make their developers work more, marketing also works 60h they claim.

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#69

Post by EliRivers »

dbg31415 wrote: post #34

> No programmers really work 60-80 hours a week, especially in a 5 day span. That is a 12-16 hour day, 5 days a week. Who works only 5 days a week? Saturday... sure take the day, but many of us end up working Sundays to get everything ready for Monday mornings. Making sure all the issues are prepared, reports for the past week have been written, all of our tasks for the week are defined and prioritized... 8-10 hours…

You're being taken advantage of. Someone has convinced you that this is normal and acceptable (quite possibly you have convinced yourself).

Re: How do you make programmers work 60-80 hours per week?

#70

Post by lutusp »

Quote: "No programmers really work 60-80 hours a week, especially in a 5 day span."

Wow -- this person doesn't know about hackers (granted that it's a term with multiple definitions). The problem with hackers is not getting them to work, it's getting them to stop.

A true hacker will work on a project far beyond any practical termination point, perpetually thinking of ways to improve the code in ways that meet private aesthetic goals unrecognizable to others and having no bearing on earthly considerations.

Programmers that quit after eight hours and go home may fit well into a corporate culture, but they're not the kind of programming addicts about whom legends are born.

Poets have a saying that poems are never finished, they're abandoned. It's the same with programming, but only if you're a hacker.

p.s. found the original quote:

"A poem is never finished; it is only abandoned." -- Paul Valéry

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