Live data from Hacker News

Is a college education worth the money?

newyorker.com

11–20 of 59 posts

Re: Is a college education worth the money?

#11

I said in another thread around here, "if you're going to get a liberal arts degree, either have enough money to afford it, or be so intensely interested in the liberal arts that you're willing to pay back your damn loans." But really, what I mean by that is a slight bit more direct (yet subtle) than it seems. It's quite possible that the study of purely academic subjects--subjects which have little chance of improvi…

I am an engineer. Being five years removed from undergrad, the most valuable parts of college were not electives in mechanics or control theory. They were the professors I interacted with, the football games I attended in the student section, the liberal arts and writing classes I was required to take, and the friends I made.

Re: Is a college education worth the money?

#12

I said in another thread around here, "if you're going to get a liberal arts degree, either have enough money to afford it, or be so intensely interested in the liberal arts that you're willing to pay back your damn loans." But really, what I mean by that is a slight bit more direct (yet subtle) than it seems. It's quite possible that the study of purely academic subjects--subjects which have little chance of improvi…

OK. 50 or 60 percent of U.S. high school graduates in 2009 went directly to college. What percentage of those do you think are studying academic subjects because they feel the subjects are "enriching their life"? 20%? 10%? 5%? 2%? The American 18-year-old is not a demographic in which you find many philosophers.

I think you'd be surprised.

Maybe it's the company I keep, or the college I go to, but hell if not at least 90% of the kids who go here think they're "enriching their lives".

Re: Is a college education worth the money?

#13

I said in another thread around here, "if you're going to get a liberal arts degree, either have enough money to afford it, or be so intensely interested in the liberal arts that you're willing to pay back your damn loans." But really, what I mean by that is a slight bit more direct (yet subtle) than it seems. It's quite possible that the study of purely academic subjects--subjects which have little chance of improvi…

IMO the cost analysis of college (beside personal preference) is largely a function of parent income. In the US, if your family is poor to "middle income" your decision tree is 1. get into a top 5/10 (at least by endowment) school 2. get into best public university (preferably in state) you can 3. learn a trade, and by all means avoid anywhere private and expensive (unless you can get a substantial outside scholarship). If your parents are eff you rich, then eff the cost. The weird bit is the area between middle income and eff you rich where financial aid is less available and it becomes more expensive to go pretty much everywhere. In that sense college expenses are a strange way of equalizing quality of life between the upper middle and the <middle

Re: Is a college education worth the money?

#14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK. 50 or 60 percent of U.S. high school graduates in 2009 went directly to college. What percentage of those do you think are studying academic subjects because they feel the subjects are "enriching their life"? 20%? 10%? 5%? 2%? The American 18-year-old is not a demographic in which you find many philosophers.

I think you'd be surprised. Maybe it's the company I keep, or the college I go to, but hell if not at least 90% of the kids who go here think they're "enriching their lives".

[deleted]

Re: Is a college education worth the money?

#15
You can't get a reliable answer from anybody for this question. Academics might tend to say "absolutely!" while those who skipped it would say "who cares?" or something like that.

They key is to figure out what directions you want to grow in and seek out the opportunities that align with them. Acads, biz-world all offer a wonderful palette of such opportunities to pick from.

I work part-time and am a part-time Ph.D. student. I'm enjoying both their contributions to my growth.

Re: Is a college education worth the money?

#16
post #8
post #3

The author sidesteps the issue and answers with (roughly) "education is never a bad thing." That's true enough, but that doesn't answer the question of whether or not a degree is worth the cost. Not a very informative article. One thing I've never understood about the whole degree v no degree debate is: don't people learn on the job? That is to say: I think the educational value of things other than college are often…

A lot of my work is on avionics software. As far as programming knowledge goes, I've learned most of what I need to do my job before college, or at least outside of college. As far as avionics goes, I've learned most of it on the job. My college education has been at best marginal with respect to the work I actually do. However , it would have been at best very difficult for me to cut through the red tape to get the…

However, it would have been at best very difficult for me to cut through the red tape to get the work I have without a college degree. The sorts of people who do hiring in this industry seem to really want to see that.

Put yourself in the place of a hiring manager, or, better still, the person setting hiring policies for large companies. You have hundreds or thousands of people competing for jobs, sending you resumes, and the like. You only need to make one decision: hire or no hire. When you're weaning down those resumes, you're probably looking for shortcuts, and one way to get there is to filter out a college degree -- which isn't that high a bar, especially for hyper competent technical people. If you're setting hiring policies, you want to stop people from hiring their incompetent brother-in-laws or wastrel friends. And so on.

PG actually wrote an essay about this kind of thing in Two Kinds of Judgment: http://www.paulgraham.com/judgement.html :

But in fact there is a second much larger class of judgements where judging you is only a means to something else. These include college admissions, hiring and investment decisions, and of course the judgements made in dating. This kind of judgement is not really about you.

Anyway, this isn't an attack on the parent poster, but it is an attack of the thoughts I often see on HN and other tech sites about the lack of importance of a college degree. If you start your own company or can get others to pay you... great. But degrees are often there not only to show that you've learned and provide learning, but also as a heuristic for people who are hiring. False positives and false negatives exist, but not so much as to abrogate the usefulness of the entire system.

Re: Is a college education worth the money?

#17
On a somewhat peripheral note I found this a bit disappointing:

According to the Times, eight out of the ten job categories that will add the most employees during the next decade—including home-health aide, customer-service representative, and store clerk—can be performed by someone without a college degree.

I was kind of hoping we'd be able to use advancing technology to reduce our need for people in the customer service/store clerk fields.

Re: Is a college education worth the money?

#18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of my work is on avionics software. As far as programming knowledge goes, I've learned most of what I need to do my job before college, or at least outside of college. As far as avionics goes, I've learned most of it on the job. My college education has been at best marginal with respect to the work I actually do. However , it would have been at best very difficult for me to cut through the red tape to get the…

However, it would have been at best very difficult for me to cut through the red tape to get the work I have without a college degree. The sorts of people who do hiring in this industry seem to really want to see that. Put yourself in the place of a hiring manager, or, better still, the person setting hiring policies for large companies. You have hundreds or thousands of people competing for jobs, sending you resumes…

Sure, no doubt. Even hip big companies like Google and Apple require/recommend/suggest a college degree for technical jobs. I don't think it's a bad hiring heuristic, as completion of a college degree does suggest an amount of knowledge and perseverence to complete a goal.

Really, in HN-related industries, unless you are unwaveringly committed to working for a startup or going into business for yourself, the work possibilities that would render a college degree as desireable-for-employment probably vastly outnumber work possibilities for which a degree has absolutely no use whatsoever.

On the flip side, I don't think a degree should be viewed as a guaranteed ticket of entry to employment. If there's a hundred or a thousand people applying for the job, and half of them do have a college degree, you still have to stand out somehow or another. It might be as simple as having solid writing skills, or an agreeable personality at the interview. But the degree alone may not suffice.

Re: Is a college education worth the money?

#19
1. Education should be good & free(in both ways) . This is essential to a democratic and efficient populous.

2. Whatever you get, you have to make it work for you. Education is no exception - you drift through school - expect it, to make almost no substantial difference to your quality of life.

3. Posing question with so many broad implications from different angle is bating. Listing who gets jobs more is narrowing use of a degree to establishing a career. Degree, as in piece of paper is good for just that.

But education is so much more then just ability to earn on a slightly higher pay scale. Its a tool to change the world, make it better. It is sickening to see all these 'repeat' articles pepper various syndicated publications.

Education is essential and yes it is worth it, if you want to get it to better yourself.

Go to a technical school if you need a paper to get a job. With a piece of paper and a bit of networking you will get a job.

Education is beyond that - its what you can give to your kids. How can you put a price tag on that?

But I digress.

Re: Is a college education worth the money?

#20
post #17

On a somewhat peripheral note I found this a bit disappointing: According to the Times, eight out of the ten job categories that will add the most employees during the next decade—including home-health aide, customer-service representative, and store clerk—can be performed by someone without a college degree. I was kind of hoping we'd be able to use advancing technology to reduce our need for people in the customer s…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN