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New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

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Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#311

Post by komali2 »

showmethemoney wrote: post #200

Once upon a time I interviewed for a role in NYC. An employee that I spoke to said they paid pretty well, and I could expect about 120. The HR person wanted my previous salary, and I refused. Eventually they said their range was 130-150. I said it wasn't gonna work cause I was looking for something more like 220. They said okay we can do that no problem. My previous salary was 110.

Not bad man, although I have to wonder what you'd have made if you never gave your number ;)

Luckily they gave 3 numbers first, so you avoided a trap many people fall into on both sides of the table - not negotiating at all.

Imagine the first thing a company says after an interview is "what's your number" and you shrug and say "100," and the company reps blink and go "no problem," then pass you an offer. Wouldn't you feel a little skeeved? "I bet I could've gotten more," you'd think. You'd be right. Companies can feel that same feeling.

A bit of back and forth is healthy. It makes both parties feel like they struggled and finally settled on a number that is fair for both (whether or not that number could have been higher or lower). That's why I always recommended bootcamp grads to push back on an initial offer. Always. Worse case the company says "no, this is the limit." Best case, you get more money, the company feels like you were a little bit harder to get and thus more valuable, etc.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#312

Post by kesselvon »

gdulli wrote: post #195
kesselvon wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies asking for your previous salary means theyre going to try to pay you with your past salary being a benchmark to work with, not necessarily what the position is worth. Companies posting employee salaries publicly aims for employees at said company to be paid at the same level (with similar experience). There's a subtle difference. Every time I've been asked about salary its been an obvious ploy to lowball my…

> Employees literally have zero incentive not to lie, since employers can't verify That assumes you feel lying is wrong only because of the circumstances of getting caught vs. valuing honesty for its own sake.

Morals are nice, but if you're being underpaid purely based on your previous salary vs actual worth, then it doesn't do you much good except to feel good.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#313

Post by komali2 »

benji-york wrote: post #294
dingdongding wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This account was created an hour ago. I doubt he is telling the truth

I think the age of the account increases the likelihood of the story being true: the person was so compelled to tell their story that they created an anonymous account just to do so.

Probably the information should be used as an allegorical example, rather than a "huh I can make 220 in NY" example.

It is very easy to lie on the internet. I try to hedge my bets on this website by essentially doxxing myself on my profile, but not everyone is willing to do that (nor should they necessarily be expected to).

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#314

Post by kesselvon »

pm24601 wrote: post #207
kesselvon wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies asking for your previous salary means theyre going to try to pay you with your past salary being a benchmark to work with, not necessarily what the position is worth. Companies posting employee salaries publicly aims for employees at said company to be paid at the same level (with similar experience). There's a subtle difference. Every time I've been asked about salary its been an obvious ploy to lowball my…

> Employees literally have zero incentive not to lie, since employers can't verify Bad assumption. A previous employer might reveal it. The future employer could ask for W-2's

Employers barely check if you have a college diploma, let alone for W2's

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#315

Post by mdb333 »

mi100hael wrote: post #190
krenden9 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally lie any time a recruiter asks for my current/past salary. How much I lie depends on what I think I should be getting for the role, and how likely it is that they can and will confirm the numbers I gave. At my most recent past job, I was working for some guys at a small startup for next to nothing in salary (~$40k). I had a 10% stake in equity, but it was worth nothing, since the company was in debt. When I…

There is 0 chance any past employer is going to divulge compensation details of a former employee to some random jackass recruiter that comes calling.

Not true. This is often included the questions asked by background check companies when they confirm previous employers. Its up to the previous employers whether they provide that information. I have seen both (ie company refuses, company provides) in my own background checks.

... so you probably want to think twice about outright lying. There are many ways to avoid lying but still getting your point across. In most cases, employers will be scared off more by someone blatantly lying (which would also be cause for termination in most cases) than someone delivering a compelling case for why they are worth more than what they were previously paid.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#316

Post by komali2 »

jimparkins wrote: post #20

Have a google for: "can i lie to a employer about past salary" - it really really messes with people - people feel super uncertain about how to approach this situation. Throwing any confidence they have during the negotiation out the window. Even now I hesitate to write this as a million people will come out and say never lie - what if they found out. More than banning. There needs to be acceptance that if someone as…

Most of us on here are trained and work in disciplines that allow us the luxury of saying to every potential employer "nah, I don't give my number, sorry," and simply moving on to the next one out of a thousand potential opportunities.

This, I think, is going to be very good for the classes of people that don't have that luxury.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#317

Post by droopyEyelids »

mrcactu5 wrote: post #153
lovich wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so no answer? If you have a reason I'd like to hear it. I cant think of a problem with this cause it makes the information disparity between employees and employers more equal, but Id like to hear any counterargument

i don't think the law will improve the information disparity. I think employers will quickly find ways around it as they always have and it will promptly be business as usual.

I see perspectives like yours very frequently in many topics of discussion.

The point I'd like you to consider:

The ease with which something can be done can affect the probability and frequency of an action without affecting the possibility of the action.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#318

Post by dboat »

pmoriarty wrote: post #43

I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters. Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue. Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, an…

In the interviews I've been to, it is not unusual to have them ask you how much you are expecting for a salary. I've thought about this before and I don't see a way to refuse to answer that question without breaking the flow and tone of the interview.

Do you recall any specific responses you've made to that question which allowed you to avoid answering it but still yielded positive results?

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#319

Post by komali2 »

mi100hael wrote: post #190
krenden9 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally lie any time a recruiter asks for my current/past salary. How much I lie depends on what I think I should be getting for the role, and how likely it is that they can and will confirm the numbers I gave. At my most recent past job, I was working for some guys at a small startup for next to nothing in salary (~$40k). I had a 10% stake in equity, but it was worth nothing, since the company was in debt. When I…

There is 0 chance any past employer is going to divulge compensation details of a former employee to some random jackass recruiter that comes calling.

As a contract recruiter I can't imagine asking this during a reference check or employment verification. I'd have gotten fired so fast I'd still have the phone in my hand on the way out.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#320

Post by j2bax »

krenden9 wrote: post #201
j2bax wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope I never hire someone like you by accident. I have a feeling it wouldn't take long until this outlook would lead to other problems in the workplace that would have you on to your next con.

Yes, because deceit runs through my soul and my heart is as black as damask cloth. The fact that I want to be paid what I feel I should and can be paid has no bearing on my performance and attitude at work. If you were to speak to any of my past employers, they would probably use the same sideways compliment my high school calc teacher wrote on a college recommendation: "brilliant, but like lightning in a bottle." Yo…

Honesty and integrity are pretty high on the list of qualities I like in people I associate and work with. The fact that you would conspire with your previous employer to artificially prop your value up and then tell a bold faced lie in an interview, does make it seem like you are not above doing whatever it takes to get what YOU want and feel you deserve.
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