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New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

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Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#141

Post by specialp »

southphillyman wrote: post #41

They are trying to pass this in Philadelphia in May. Comcast and the local Chamber of Commerce are suing to stop it citing that it's a Freedom of Speech violation. Besides being able to freely low ball candidates who started behind the 8 ball (women/minorities/people who didn't go to elite schools), is there a real argument for companies HAVING to know your previous salary?

There really isn't. In a negotiation knowing the price paid for a product previously, or in this case a person, is a distinct advantage to the person paying. And will do nothing else but perpetuate low pay for underpaid people. Think of the scenarios:

1. I made X at my last job where X is far less than what you are paying your current employees. Well as a business owner and negotiator if I offer them X + a small bump I can probably get away with paying less.

2. I made X at my last job where X is far more than you are paying your current employees. You either are going to stretch the budget, or negotiate.

So it is always a negotiation unless the person says they made less. A true negotiation is "How much are you asking for?" A person selling products isn't going to tell someone what they are selling their products for to a competitor. They are both going to negotiate a price or decide not to do business.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#142

Post by eric_h »

southphillyman wrote: post #94
josh_fyi wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have some leeway. If you say "My compensation was $70K" and your salary was $50K, you may well be telling the truth.

Going forward I'm including calculations for free lunch, the relatively excessive amount of PTO days I get every year (30+), and the relatively affordable insurance I have ($140 per monthly for a family). Locally I think it will be hard to get a similar benefit package so I'm going to quantify those benefits and bake them into my "salary".

There was a post on hacker news a few months ago that explained exactly this. I believe it's a fair way of calculating it (if you feel that you must disclose something for whatever reason).

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#143

Post by teknologist »

jimparkins wrote: post #20

Have a google for: "can i lie to a employer about past salary" - it really really messes with people - people feel super uncertain about how to approach this situation. Throwing any confidence they have during the negotiation out the window. Even now I hesitate to write this as a million people will come out and say never lie - what if they found out. More than banning. There needs to be acceptance that if someone as…

Except in countries where it's required to hand over past salary information (pay slips and tax receipts) to HR at your new employer. Then it's clear you've been telling a lie.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#144

Post by tzs »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #125
josho wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hijacking this for visibility. If the recruiter asks repeatedly, a trick that I learned is to answer that it's in your employee confidentiality agreement not to discuss the terms of your employment. It's arguably a true statement as well (in case you were concerned about telling a white lie)--your employer could be considering your salary as confidential because they obviously haven't disclosed it publicly, so you ar…

Except it's illegal to prevent employees from discussing salary.

Not quite, at least nationally in the US. The National Labor Relations Act only bans prohibiting employees from discussing salary with other employees of the same company. Prohibitions on discussing salary with people outside the company are fine.

Also, it does not cover contractors or supervisors.

Some states may have more extensive prohibitions.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#145

Post by BearGoesChirp »

karrotwaltz wrote: post #88
comicjk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This points to an interesting method of poverty reduction - identify the little tricks which knowledgeable people use to get ahead in the system, and tweak the system to make the tricks less necessary.

Also, I think salary negotiation is partially responsible for the man / woman wage gap. I think men are more inclined to agressive negotiate their salaries, and women might be less prone to lie or hide their current salary too.

One thing I never see studied on this topic is the differing impacts of social expectations on gender roles related to how much someone is willing to work extra for extra salary. At least for the part of society where I live, a man's income influences his perceived value as a partner more than a woman's, and in general there is an expectation that a man is the provider who pays for dates. (I'm not defending this double standard at all, only say it is what I observe.) Wouldn't this create a stronger force for men to do more to increase their salary than for women?

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#146

Post by throwaway9475 »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #125
josho wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hijacking this for visibility. If the recruiter asks repeatedly, a trick that I learned is to answer that it's in your employee confidentiality agreement not to discuss the terms of your employment. It's arguably a true statement as well (in case you were concerned about telling a white lie)--your employer could be considering your salary as confidential because they obviously haven't disclosed it publicly, so you ar…

Except it's illegal to prevent employees from discussing salary.

A) A recruiter isn't necessarily going to know that. B) Even if they did, companies do illegal things all the time and get away with it. Maybe it's technically illegal, but also maybe your company would come after you for something trivial and just ruin your life with litigation. I totally understand actually wanting to abide by an NDA even if it's unenforceable.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#147

Post by najati83 »

pmoriarty wrote: post #43

I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters. Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue. Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, an…

> it's worth more to me to keep it private as I'm placed at a disadvantage in negotiations if I name a number first

Can't you just... lie about it? Make up some high number so you're at an advantage instead of a disadvantage.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#149

Post by throwaway9475 »

jnwatson wrote: post #136
jimparkins wrote: post #20

Have a google for: "can i lie to a employer about past salary" - it really really messes with people - people feel super uncertain about how to approach this situation. Throwing any confidence they have during the negotiation out the window. Even now I hesitate to write this as a million people will come out and say never lie - what if they found out. More than banning. There needs to be acceptance that if someone as…

Interesting. An additional argument for lying is that you're probably already lying in other parts of the interview. Why do you want to work here? (money, and the desire to pay the bills and feed my children) Where do you see yourself in 5 years? (probably not at this company) What is your biggest weakness? (not like I would actually tell a stranger a real answer)

100% this. It's all a game, except prospective employees are guilted into thinking they're the only ones lying (or that doing it is wrong). It works the other way too:

Candidate: "What do you dislike the most about working here?" Interviewer: (My asshole boss...) "The office is a little noisy sometimes."

Companies are under no obligation to be truthful.

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