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Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

arstechnica.com

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Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#51

Post by petters »

thegeomaster wrote: post #29
ysavir wrote: post #7

I guess in 10-20 years we will be telling our grandchildren about the old days, where you can do whatever you want on your computer, limited only the abilities of the hardware* . And they won't believe us. *Simplification, of course.

Your comment reminds me of this dystopian essay, written by Richard Stallman 20 years ago: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html

I just read that; it is even too optimistic in some cases: "Ten percent of those fees went to the researchers who wrote the papers"

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#52

Post by mmcconnell1618 »

izacus wrote: post #44
watty wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do "Virtual Consoles" which are releasing more and more past games on different platforms and charging for it. I'm guessing if emulators weren't so rampant on the PC then companies like Nintendo would have or would think about creating a Virtual Console on PC for NES/SNES/N64, etc.

Having to rebuy the license to pay the same game over and over and over again so you can play it on a slightly updated and still working hardware is downright Kafkaesque. Nintendo and other copyright holders want to act like you're licensing software (so they don't have to be beholden to first-sale doctrine, laws concerning the ability to make local backups and other consumer protections), but they also want to preve…

It really takes away from the good will I might have toward the Nintendo brand. My son wanted the new Zelda game for his wii u. He earned it and we got a download code from Amazon. One week later, Grandma bought him a Nintendo Switch. Guess which downloadable game only works on the Wii U? If we want the same game (downloadable too) for the Switch that will be another $60!

When I buy a game on my iPhone 6, it works on the new iPhone 7 and it works on my iPad. Apple isn't perfect either but at least they understand that once a consumer "buys" a digital product, they don't like being told they have to buy it again and again.

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#54

Post by the8472 »

throwanem wrote: post #47
izacus wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until of course they disable installation from other sources than Windows Store in name of "malware protection and security". Boiling frogs and all that.

I doubt they'll attempt to disable execution of web content based on some "this is probably an emulator" heuristic. On the one hand, that'd instantly be circumvented into negligibility; on the other, the backlash would be epic. I also severely doubt they'll attempt to prevent installation of application binaries from sources other than the Windows store. If anyone were going to be dumb enough to attempt such a move,…

Webcontent is not a free platform. It does not even give you sockets which can interact with arbitrary network services without centralized control (no, websockets don't work because they can't listen, webrtc does not work because it needs rendezvous servers). And neither can it access your own filesystem. It is quite locked down. In a way you get compute cycles, but you don't get access to the machine's full capabilities.

And they could trivially forbid loading file:// URLs or disable features for those since few people use those anyway, that way you would lose persistence and would be dependent on something to even host your software.

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#55

Post by gdulli »

izacus wrote: post #44
watty wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do "Virtual Consoles" which are releasing more and more past games on different platforms and charging for it. I'm guessing if emulators weren't so rampant on the PC then companies like Nintendo would have or would think about creating a Virtual Console on PC for NES/SNES/N64, etc.

Having to rebuy the license to pay the same game over and over and over again so you can play it on a slightly updated and still working hardware is downright Kafkaesque. Nintendo and other copyright holders want to act like you're licensing software (so they don't have to be beholden to first-sale doctrine, laws concerning the ability to make local backups and other consumer protections), but they also want to preve…

Well, I've misplaced my receipt for The Legend of Zelda that I bought 30 years ago. Ideally they'd have had an infrastructure in 1986 to manage my ownership of the product in perpetuity across media and distribution channels. But they didn't, so I can either hold on to my feeling of entitlement that Nintendo owes me the virtual console version for free or I can pay $5 to play it on there.

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#56

Post by seba_dos1 »

pmarreck wrote: post #46
TelmoMenezes wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why the parent is being downvoted. Perhaps people don't like the read the truth, perhaps they are too young to remember a time of more computational freedom and openness. The majority of "computers" people own are already locked down, and it seems clear that things will only get worse -- hardware is increasingly opaque and designed to do things against the interest of the user (or, to say the least, without…

It's getting downvoted because there will always be open source OS'es that can run open-source emulators. Since all computers are also Turing machines. Dystopian reasoning in the 2 parent comments is slippery-slope fallacy.

Yeah. I'll sound cheesy now, but - open your eyes. There are plenty of locked down computers around us in everyday use that often need to be literally exploited in order to turn into something resembling a device controlled by its owner instead of manufacturer. One easily noticable group of them is called "mobile phones", for instance.

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#57

Post by the8472 »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #56
pmarreck wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's getting downvoted because there will always be open source OS'es that can run open-source emulators. Since all computers are also Turing machines. Dystopian reasoning in the 2 parent comments is slippery-slope fallacy.

Yeah. I'll sound cheesy now, but - open your eyes. There are plenty of locked down computers around us in everyday use that often need to be literally exploited in order to turn into something resembling a device controlled by its owner instead of manufacturer. One easily noticable group of them is called "mobile phones", for instance.

And even when you root your phone you still don't have full control over it. Just see the recent broadcom wifi exploit.

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#58

Post by JetSpiegel »

pmarreck wrote: post #46
TelmoMenezes wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why the parent is being downvoted. Perhaps people don't like the read the truth, perhaps they are too young to remember a time of more computational freedom and openness. The majority of "computers" people own are already locked down, and it seems clear that things will only get worse -- hardware is increasingly opaque and designed to do things against the interest of the user (or, to say the least, without…

It's getting downvoted because there will always be open source OS'es that can run open-source emulators. Since all computers are also Turing machines. Dystopian reasoning in the 2 parent comments is slippery-slope fallacy.

It's already a reality on mobile, the slope is already greased.

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#59

Post by pjmlp »

mmcconnell1618 wrote: post #52
izacus wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having to rebuy the license to pay the same game over and over and over again so you can play it on a slightly updated and still working hardware is downright Kafkaesque. Nintendo and other copyright holders want to act like you're licensing software (so they don't have to be beholden to first-sale doctrine, laws concerning the ability to make local backups and other consumer protections), but they also want to preve…

It really takes away from the good will I might have toward the Nintendo brand. My son wanted the new Zelda game for his wii u. He earned it and we got a download code from Amazon. One week later, Grandma bought him a Nintendo Switch. Guess which downloadable game only works on the Wii U? If we want the same game (downloadable too) for the Switch that will be another $60! When I buy a game on my iPhone 6, it works on…

The little facts you are ignoring is that Wii U and Switch aren't the same hardware, nor do they run the same OS.

Re: Microsoft formally bans emulators on Xbox, Windows 10 download shops

#60

Post by jnky »

gdulli wrote: post #55
izacus wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having to rebuy the license to pay the same game over and over and over again so you can play it on a slightly updated and still working hardware is downright Kafkaesque. Nintendo and other copyright holders want to act like you're licensing software (so they don't have to be beholden to first-sale doctrine, laws concerning the ability to make local backups and other consumer protections), but they also want to preve…

Well, I've misplaced my receipt for The Legend of Zelda that I bought 30 years ago. Ideally they'd have had an infrastructure in 1986 to manage my ownership of the product in perpetuity across media and distribution channels. But they didn't, so I can either hold on to my feeling of entitlement that Nintendo owes me the virtual console version for free or I can pay $5 to play it on there.

Or you can download an emulator and a rar with all 721 SNES games for free.
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