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Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

economist.com

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Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#231

Post by dx034 »

jack9 wrote: post #132
metafunctor wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has always amazed me how casually people drink and drive in some countries; the US especially springs to mind. Over here, drinking and driving is an extremely shameful and embarrassing thing to do. I would say it's on par with hitting a child. You just don't do it, not to save 20 bucks, or to save you from walking an hour.

Just south of the US border, drinking and driving is the norm. Edit: Whoops, guess I hit a nerve with an uncomfortable truth. The lax enforcement in mexico, is just something industrialized people rarely think about...until you get there. But hey, argue about it on the internet and tell that to the drive-up neighborhood beer and fish taco stands from ensenada to tiajuana. I never go farther south, but I'm sure it's t…

North of the border as well. Spend a Friday evening at the West Coast around LA, very few people driving home from bars or restaurants will be sober.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#232

Post by Dotnaught »

lend000 wrote: post #7
Dotnaught wrote: post #3

Perhaps that should be phrased "the availability of drivers using a ride sharing platform has helped reduce drunk driving accidents." If Uber doesn't accept drivers as employees and isn't responsible for their actions, it shouldn't be credited with their collective contributions to a safer society.

That's a strangely bitter way of looking at things. Ride sharing companies, including Uber, have brought tremendous benefits to society, and drunk driving prevention is probably at the top of the list. Uber has made the largest difference of all these companies because it has been the most aggressive in disrupting rent-seekers like taxi companies. The drivers and the general willingness of people to embrace the gig e…

"Bitter" is a strangely ad hominem argument.

The thing is that Uber explicitly disclaims responsibility for its drivers in its terms of service. And in court, when an Uber driver is accused of a crime, Uber maintains it's not responsible.

Eg.: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a242e2ad2fab4f57805aa047f8c06...

It's inconsistent to credit Uber with positive outcomes and not negative ones.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#233

Post by dx034 »

rwmj wrote: post #221
alkonaut wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty irresponsible of someone to drive drunk to save $20-30. I could never imagine doing that over the options (riding a bike, ignore going to the bar in the first place etc).

The real problem is not that $20 (or whatever) is too much to spend on a taxi, but there are no taxis at all . Disclaimer: This isn't an excuse for drink-driving, you should think about this before you go out, but clearly there are a lot of people who either don't think about it or can't help themselves.

And no public transport. The real difference to Europe is not the lack of taxis (you often don't get one in Europe at night when everyone leaves the bar), it's that you don't have acceptable and safe public transport (night buses) as an alternative.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#234

Post by eloff »

cafard wrote: post #225
jhpaul wrote: post #65

Based on personal experiences this isn't surprising. When I was in college in a small town in the late 00's, many friends and acquaintances would drive across town after heavy drinking. 10-15 minutes, straight roads, little traffic. Other than not going out, or not getting home, you didn't have many options. It was a hour long walk or a $20-40 cab ride, if you could get one. I was recently back in town for a wedding…

A ten to fifteen minute walk is less than a mile, unless heavy drinking somehow speeds one up. Where does that distance cost $20 in a cab? The NYC taxi & limousine website shows one mile in Manhattan as costing about $6.30--$5 for the fare, .80 for MTA and improvement surcharges, .50 for night surcharge. Edit: My mistake, misread the text.

It was a 10-15 min drive, or one hour walking. Which sounds about right (maybe a little less than $20.)

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#235

Post by dx034 »

cm2187 wrote: post #150
jhpaul wrote: post #65

Based on personal experiences this isn't surprising. When I was in college in a small town in the late 00's, many friends and acquaintances would drive across town after heavy drinking. 10-15 minutes, straight roads, little traffic. Other than not going out, or not getting home, you didn't have many options. It was a hour long walk or a $20-40 cab ride, if you could get one. I was recently back in town for a wedding…

I completely agree. I wonder how self driving cars (i.e. no driver to watch you) are going to change that. The consensus is that we will be using shared cars as opposed to owning your own car. But if the tube in London gives us any indication, when you order a self driving car in London on a Saturday night, you are likely to find it covered with vomit and other bodily fluids. I do believe that owning a self driving c…

I think you might have a wrong impression of the tube. I use it quite often but cannot remember when I last saw vomit on a train. If at all rather on the platform as many people try to get off if they feel very sick but don't make it to the exit of the station. There are certainly many drunk people but also a fair share of people going from/to work late at night.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#236

Post by dx034 »

soperj wrote: post #39
itchyjunk wrote: post #15

Hmm, the study [0] credits over all reduction of drunk driving accidents to Uber. If ride sharing is the source of reduction, shouldn't ride sharing in general be credited? Maybe Uber was the only ride-share available during the study though since it's data from 1989-2013. "A recent increase in the ease and availability of alternative rides for intoxicated passengers partially explains the steep decrease in alcohol-r…

It's not just about dirt cheap. You know that you're not going to get screwed by an uber driver, even if you're drunk. Can't say the same about cab drivers, who've definitely tried to pull things when they see drunk people. Not to mention the ones that'll just pass you by over and over, or won't come to your location at a certain time, or just not answer the phone. Cabs in general have been horrible.

Exactly. My experience as a tourist in the US has been horrible. Even drunk I still realize that the driver makes considerable detours on the way. With Uber that will either not happen or I can complain and get a refund.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#238

Post by dx034 »

plytheman wrote: post #19
rubicon33 wrote: post #16

Another bright light on the horizon: Self driving cars. I'm hugely optimistic that within the next 100 years, we could very possibly see deaths from drunk driving shrink to a small fraction of it's current value. It's a great thing when profit driven businesses also have positive side effects for everyone.

I'm curious when self-driving cars become common place how the law will react to it. It's my assumption that the law will still require a driver to be sober in the event that manual control is needed, though I suppose if the car is driving itself perfectly fine police would have no reasonable grounds to pull anyone over and discover they're drunk in the first place.

Very soon. Some countries, such as Germany, already discussed rules around self driving cars. In countries with a strong car lobby it won't take long until laws are in place that provide self driving cars without human interaction (once this is safely possible). Otherwise it's not much of a selling argument.

Insurances are also very active developing models around it, so it shouldn't take too long from when we first see that car manufacturers can actually demonstrate the capabilities.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#239

Post by Broken_Hippo »

arnsholt wrote: post #208
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think the same - I've lived in plenty of places with no public transportation. No choice, I'd say, bemoaning the lack of decent public transport. But then I was in a similar situation off in a small town in Norway. I was at a 80th birthday party in a small town. Most of the attendees were drunk. Everyone already knew someone to take them home, and organized themselves accordingly, some waiting a bit for the…

IIRC, the legal limit in Norway us basically the measurement error of the BAC tests; basically you should fail if you've had anything at all to drink.

That was one of those things my Norwegian spouse made sure I knew beforehand. It is .02 or something like that, and I believe it is measured slightly differently.

He's also said that I can get penalized - through loss of license and other means - just by being a sober passenger with a drunk driver. It benefits me to make sure the other person is sober.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#240

Post by feintruled »

gambiting wrote: post #190
askvictor wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you don't have a driver's licence?

See, this is where the intention of the law sort of falls apart - because in that case, you are only given a fine. So the punishment is disproportional towards people who have a driving licence. People who don't have one are punished a lot less for the exact same offence.

This reminds me of the old joke about the preacher. He is giving it the full fire and brimstone treatment, shouting that in hell there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth at the eternal punishment. One cheeky young lad asks, "But what if you have no teeth?" The preacher roars back "Teeth will be PROVIDED!"
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