Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving • Hacker News Board

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#161

Post by mjevans » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 8:26 AM UTC

cmarschner wrote: post #142

jhpaul wrote: post #65

Based on personal experiences this isn't surprising. When I was in college in a small town in the late 00's, many friends and acquaintances would drive across town after heavy drinking. 10-15 minutes, straight roads, little traffic. Other than not going out, or not getting home, you didn't have many options. It was a hour long walk or a $20-40 cab ride, if you could get one. I was recently back in town for a wedding…

>Other than not going out, or not getting home, you didn't have many options. I don't understand. Of course you do! Just go out and don't drink...! When I grew up we would just take turns. A car seats 5, so you would be the driver every 5 times. That's not too bad... You could still have a beer or two, or just have a sober evening and the next day without a hang-over. Also, everyone knew the formula by which blood al…

I envy you for not being able to count your friends on a single hand.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#162

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 8:27 AM UTC

metafunctor wrote: post #107

kneel wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It has always amazed me how casually people drink and drive in some countries; the US especially springs to mind. Drinking and driving is still very taboo in the US. It's just that most areas of the country require an automobile to get around and most people have a car. One more thing, no one should be surprised that people drink and drive anywhere. People make all sorts of terrible decisions when they're intoxicate…

Not quite as taboo as many other countries [1], unfortunately. You give two excuses to drink and drive. Both are indefensible. The first excuse is "need a car to get around, have car". I live in a sparsely populated area as well, and everyone uses a car to get around. When we go out drinking, we plan ahead. The most common options are designated drivers, taxis, sleeping over, walking, or cycling. The second excuse is…

A lot of people simply don't care. They feel they can make it, they're skilled enough. It's actually similar to speeding, which incidentally is responsible for more traffic deaths and accidents - drivers don't give a fuck, they're smarter than the system.

The only way I know of actually beating some reason into people thinking like that is through heavy and sure penalties. Lots of alcohol spot-checks. Automatic ticketing for speeding measured via average, not instantaneous speed. DUI, you lose license. Speed, you're half-way to losing one.

Politically untenable perhaps, but I could see it making a dent in deaths on the roads.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#163

Post by CalRobert » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 8:34 AM UTC

m-j-fox wrote: post #112

metafunctor wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite as taboo as many other countries [1], unfortunately. You give two excuses to drink and drive. Both are indefensible. The first excuse is "need a car to get around, have car". I live in a sparsely populated area as well, and everyone uses a car to get around. When we go out drinking, we plan ahead. The most common options are designated drivers, taxis, sleeping over, walking, or cycling. The second excuse is…

Walking and cycling are going to get you killed at the same rate if not higher as driving. I guess you're not as likely to kill someone else.

You're being downvoted, but you make a good point. Here's some more commentary in support of your statement.

http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/28/the-perils-of-drunk-walki...

It's a damn shame the US has decided to build streets that are safer to drive on drunk than walk on.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#164

Post by mjevans » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 8:36 AM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #159

ajmurmann wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The zoning restrictions are one of the most startling things to be about the US. Especially since the US is in general very pro market but in this case is incredibly anti market. The major my suburb recently sent out a survey asking people what kind of building projects people would like to see. The granularity of what was being asked for was shocking. It should not be the government's task to decide if we need to bu…

I don't see zoning as black-and-white as you do. We have pretty strict zoning requirements in most of Germany too... with some exceptions of course, and you can immediately see that the quality of life in lesser regulated areas goes downhill. The point is that you have to apply common sense to zoning, which given the countless comments about US zoning seems to be the difference.

I would like to see more of this in the US.

Common sense (zoning, and other things):

Japanese Zoning :: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8540845

http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#165

Post by usrusr » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 8:51 AM UTC

posguy wrote: post #125

Griffinsauce wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a perfect case for autonomous cars. They don't have to be paid to wait.

Gas, wear and tear & depreciation aren't free though, these are always going to be higher cost areas to serve.

How much wear and tear for a robot that is just sitting still listening to the internet uplink? If only every tenth of all cars currently stored on public parking would be hailable robots you would get very comfortable availability even in the remotest village. Occasional idle rebalancing drives would probably be less common than the idle leg of current “go pick someone up“ or “bring someone somewhere and return" trips.

If robot taxis happen, they won't be just like regular taxis without a driver. The mix between investment, hourly cost and per mile cost would change a lot, making entirely new business models possible and shifting the optimization peaks of existing ones.

Personally, if I would somehow happen upon a dozen robot taxis to turn into a business, I would select elderly people in a rural area as my target audience. Not your typical early adopter and quite some natural churn (short age window between should not drive anymore but still able to take care of themselves), but you get awesome ad targeting if you put out flyers in the doctor's waiting room. Oh, and you need to hire the one taxi driver who currently serves the doctor's appointment market in that area as your support guy who chats all the nice old ladies through the introductory phase over the car's hands free.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#166

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 8:54 AM UTC

nikcub wrote: post #59

username223 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but don't call it "sharing," because sharing is reciprocal. If it were actually sharing, you would be driving for Uber as much as the people who chauffeur you around. Call them what they are: unlicensed taxis. Also, "the general willingness of people to embrace the gig economy" is just another way of saying "many people are desperate enough to do sub-minimum-wage piecework."

> because sharing is reciprocal. This didn't sound right so I looked it up[0] No mention of it being reciprocal - which makes sense for almost every use of "sharing" I can think of When I share my sandwich I'm not receiving any other sandwich from anybody else (perhaps if I was I'd share more often) Anyway, its not easy to defend Uber and I don't want to be labeled that way - since I've boycotted the service more tha…

It's only ride "sharing" if the driver is already driving that way. You're going along with them.

If someone shares their sandwich they are eating it too. If someone makes a sandwich to give to you that's not sharing.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#167

Post by posguy » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 8:56 AM UTC

developer2 wrote: post #154

posguy wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$30 for a 8 mile trip when your making $7hr is really hard on the budget. It might be way cheaper, but it is still unfordable for the median person in a rural area.

You may have missed it, but my grandparent's comment - and my reply - were regarding driverless cars. There is no driver making $7/hour in an autonomous driverless car. (Off-topic aside: no taxi driver makes $7/hour). There's a reason an easy trip costs $50-80 in a taxi, and it has nothing to do with human labor or maintenance of the car. A driverless vehicle will not have to make $100+/hour to make up for maintenanc…

No, the $7hr was in reference to what you make as a service sector employee in Idaho or Montana.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#168

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 8:57 AM UTC

hueving wrote: post #90

brainflake wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you really had that experience in NYC? I've lived in Brooklyn for 10 years and have only once had a cab refuse to drive me home.

Perhaps you haven't committed the crime of living in a poor neighborhood or looking like a minority.

Aren't most taxi drivers [in NYC] from "minority" populations? Do they really discriminate in this way?

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#169

Post by Broken_Hippo » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 9:02 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #105

metafunctor wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has always amazed me how casually people drink and drive in some countries; the US especially springs to mind. Over here, drinking and driving is an extremely shameful and embarrassing thing to do. I would say it's on par with hitting a child. You just don't do it, not to save 20 bucks, or to save you from walking an hour.

It isn't that, the cab rides are never just $20, and often there are no cabs at all. The USA just has crappy non car transportation options. And it isn't just an hour walk in many places, but a few hours walk on dark streets with no side walks. When I was living in the Deep South, I sometimes had to take people home 20+ miles out in the middle of nowhere.

I used to think the same - I've lived in plenty of places with no public transportation. No choice, I'd say, bemoaning the lack of decent public transport.

But then I was in a similar situation off in a small town in Norway. I was at a 80th birthday party in a small town. Most of the attendees were drunk. Everyone already knew someone to take them home, and organized themselves accordingly, some waiting a bit for the sober driver to return empty. A few found someone at the party (my spouse)- and then proceeded to drink. It was nearly surreal to be in the situation.

The truth is that in the states, it is OK to say, "I've only had X beers, so I'm ok to drive." IT is socailly acceptable behavior. And no one really keeps track most times, so if they seem sober enough to us or we know better, we'll let them go. The acceptable BAC level is much lower here - one beer can send you over the limit - and penalties are harsher, so that could be a major factor as well.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#170

Post by Broken_Hippo » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 9:14 AM UTC

pluma wrote: post #155

sAbakumoff wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During my first visit to the USA, back in 2007, I was shocked at casual drinking and driving habits of my co-workers. They were fine with having 5-6 bottles of beer and a couple of shots and then drop me in the hotel before driving home. Fortunately they don't have to do that anymore.

I think this might be related to another complaint you often hear about: the drinking culture in general. Where I live in Europe it's normal to have designated drivers at parties and it's socially unacceptable to pressure them into drinking. If someone offers you a drink, "I'm driving" is a no-questions-asked way to turn it down (same goes for "I'm pregnant" or "I'm a recovering alcoholic"). That doesn't seem to be t…

Your judgement matches my experience. I lived in the US then moved to Northern Europe.