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Verizon wants a piece of Google's ad business

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Re: Verizon wants a piece of Google's ad business

#11

Post by franciscop »

kumarm wrote: post #5
newsat13 wrote: post #4

We all hate ads, no doubt about it. But I don't like the way media is going about accusing Comcast and Verizon for what the consumers brought upon themselves. Comcast/Verizon simply want exactly what Google does. AFAIK, Google does not "prompt" me saying that they mine my data and use it to show ads. In fact, I just tried creating a gmail account and there is no such explicit popup dialog that tell me this informatio…

We don't pay any money to google to use their service. We pay to Comcast and Verizon for the service they provide.

This is the same as cinemas showing 20-30 min advertising for a movie you paid for, or airports forcing you to go through dozens of shops to get to the plane.

I stopped going to the cinema and download the movies for this reason but of course I didn't stop taking planes. Apparently in the US you cannot really choose your ISP so it's gonna be bad...

Re: Verizon wants a piece of Google's ad business

#12

Post by awalton »

newsat13 wrote: post #4

We all hate ads, no doubt about it. But I don't like the way media is going about accusing Comcast and Verizon for what the consumers brought upon themselves. Comcast/Verizon simply want exactly what Google does. AFAIK, Google does not "prompt" me saying that they mine my data and use it to show ads. In fact, I just tried creating a gmail account and there is no such explicit popup dialog that tell me this informatio…

> Maybe someone can help me understand the distinction between these two.

Verizon is the pipe we move data over - it's the road. "Google" is the service at the other end of the pipe - it's our destination. Verizon is unhappy with being the pipe, despite that literally being the business they signed up to be in. They have decided that the destinations make more money than they can ever squeeze out of being the road service. So, they hatched a plan...

Verizon is now trying to use the fact that we're going to "Google" to instead funnel customers into their destinations - "You don't need "Google", use "Verizoogle" instead!" Verizon also wants to install toll lanes on their roads such that even using "Google" proper costs you extra. And it costs "Google" extra too, because why only charge in one direction?

Still going to stare blankly and refuse to see the problem?

Re: Verizon wants a piece of Google's ad business

#13

Post by newsat13 »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #8
newsat13 wrote: post #4

We all hate ads, no doubt about it. But I don't like the way media is going about accusing Comcast and Verizon for what the consumers brought upon themselves. Comcast/Verizon simply want exactly what Google does. AFAIK, Google does not "prompt" me saying that they mine my data and use it to show ads. In fact, I just tried creating a gmail account and there is no such explicit popup dialog that tell me this informatio…

Google doesn't have a natural monopoly in most of the country, and the ISPs do. Couple that with no ISP equivalent of ctrl+shift+n, and there you are (VPNs are just replacing one ISP with another).

Anonymous mode is really just a placebo. All it does it keep your browser history clean. Don't be fooled that Google does not know it's you. Google can easily track you using the IP address. This is really as simple as I saw this dude login with this IP. Now I see the same IP but don't see a session cookie. I can say pretty much for sure that it's that dude in anonymous mode. Note that bing already does this kind of IP based profile building. I am 100% sure Google does this already.

Re: Verizon wants a piece of Google's ad business

#14

Post by icebraining »

newsat13 wrote: post #4

We all hate ads, no doubt about it. But I don't like the way media is going about accusing Comcast and Verizon for what the consumers brought upon themselves. Comcast/Verizon simply want exactly what Google does. AFAIK, Google does not "prompt" me saying that they mine my data and use it to show ads. In fact, I just tried creating a gmail account and there is no such explicit popup dialog that tell me this informatio…

Google actually does prompt me regularly, telling me that they process my data to show me ads based on it: http://www.darrenmothersele.com/img/blog/google-popup.png

Re: Verizon wants a piece of Google's ad business

#15

Post by toomuchtodo »

awalton wrote: post #12
newsat13 wrote: post #4

We all hate ads, no doubt about it. But I don't like the way media is going about accusing Comcast and Verizon for what the consumers brought upon themselves. Comcast/Verizon simply want exactly what Google does. AFAIK, Google does not "prompt" me saying that they mine my data and use it to show ads. In fact, I just tried creating a gmail account and there is no such explicit popup dialog that tell me this informatio…

> Maybe someone can help me understand the distinction between these two. Verizon is the pipe we move data over - it's the road. "Google" is the service at the other end of the pipe - it's our destination. Verizon is unhappy with being the pipe, despite that literally being the business they signed up to be in. They have decided that the destinations make more money than they can ever squeeze out of being the road se…

> Still going to stare blankly and refuse to see the problem?

The problem isn't Verizon; the problem is voters who allow their representatives to remain in office without passing legislation to fix this.

Don't blame corporations for working within the system they're presented. Blame an apathetic voter base.

Re: Verizon wants a piece of Google's ad business

#16

Post by rayiner »

awalton wrote: post #12
newsat13 wrote: post #4

We all hate ads, no doubt about it. But I don't like the way media is going about accusing Comcast and Verizon for what the consumers brought upon themselves. Comcast/Verizon simply want exactly what Google does. AFAIK, Google does not "prompt" me saying that they mine my data and use it to show ads. In fact, I just tried creating a gmail account and there is no such explicit popup dialog that tell me this informatio…

> Maybe someone can help me understand the distinction between these two. Verizon is the pipe we move data over - it's the road. "Google" is the service at the other end of the pipe - it's our destination. Verizon is unhappy with being the pipe, despite that literally being the business they signed up to be in. They have decided that the destinations make more money than they can ever squeeze out of being the road se…

But Google isn't the destination. Google's top services (search and YouTube) are just means for finding and getting to what we really want, which is the content (website, video, etc.).

Re: Verizon wants a piece of Google's ad business

#17

Post by pcwalton »

awalton wrote: post #12
newsat13 wrote: post #4

We all hate ads, no doubt about it. But I don't like the way media is going about accusing Comcast and Verizon for what the consumers brought upon themselves. Comcast/Verizon simply want exactly what Google does. AFAIK, Google does not "prompt" me saying that they mine my data and use it to show ads. In fact, I just tried creating a gmail account and there is no such explicit popup dialog that tell me this informatio…

> Maybe someone can help me understand the distinction between these two. Verizon is the pipe we move data over - it's the road. "Google" is the service at the other end of the pipe - it's our destination. Verizon is unhappy with being the pipe, despite that literally being the business they signed up to be in. They have decided that the destinations make more money than they can ever squeeze out of being the road se…

> They have decided that the destinations make more money than they can ever squeeze out of being the road service.

You say that as though it's not true.

Re: Verizon wants a piece of Google's ad business

#18

Post by heavymark »

newsat13 wrote: post #4

We all hate ads, no doubt about it. But I don't like the way media is going about accusing Comcast and Verizon for what the consumers brought upon themselves. Comcast/Verizon simply want exactly what Google does. AFAIK, Google does not "prompt" me saying that they mine my data and use it to show ads. In fact, I just tried creating a gmail account and there is no such explicit popup dialog that tell me this informatio…

But Google and Facebook are Free, so giving are data is a way of paying for that. Comcast and Verizon we already pay for, so they are double dipping. Also Google/Facebook can prioritize their content over competitors, where is as an ISP with the changing laws Comcast/Verizon could. If Verizon wants to offer its services for free, then yes I believe if we allow it with Google/Facebook we should allow with it Verizon. Now of course Google/Facebook shouldn't either, but to say that Comcast/Verizon should be able to because Google/Facebook does not appear to hold because of the difference in pricing.

Re: Verizon wants a piece of Google's ad business

#19

Post by rayiner »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #8
newsat13 wrote: post #4

We all hate ads, no doubt about it. But I don't like the way media is going about accusing Comcast and Verizon for what the consumers brought upon themselves. Comcast/Verizon simply want exactly what Google does. AFAIK, Google does not "prompt" me saying that they mine my data and use it to show ads. In fact, I just tried creating a gmail account and there is no such explicit popup dialog that tell me this informatio…

Google doesn't have a natural monopoly in most of the country, and the ISPs do. Couple that with no ISP equivalent of ctrl+shift+n, and there you are (VPNs are just replacing one ISP with another).

Verizon doesn't have a monopoly almost anywhere. It competes with cable, and satellite throughout almost its whole service area. Now, if you want to argue "we'll, satellite isn't as good," you could say the same for Bing and DDG.

Re: Verizon wants a piece of Google's ad business

#20

Post by ant6n »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #15
awalton wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe someone can help me understand the distinction between these two. Verizon is the pipe we move data over - it's the road. "Google" is the service at the other end of the pipe - it's our destination. Verizon is unhappy with being the pipe, despite that literally being the business they signed up to be in. They have decided that the destinations make more money than they can ever squeeze out of being the road se…

> Still going to stare blankly and refuse to see the problem? The problem isn't Verizon; the problem is voters who allow their representatives to remain in office without passing legislation to fix this. Don't blame corporations for working within the system they're presented. Blame an apathetic voter base.

So companies cannot be responsible for anything, it's the laws! Oh and of course the law makers aren't responsible for anything, it's the voters!

Very convenient, especially given how the dysfunctional US electoral system means voting for change isn't possible.

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