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Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#71

Post by acchow »

saosebastiao wrote: post #42
jorgemf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kotlin is backed by a tooling company. This is a very strong argument. The ones that are doing the best IDE for java (for a lot of people) are the ones that decided to create kotlin. Swift also has the tooling support of Apple, but I only read complains about tooling around Swift. Go and Rust are very niche compare to java or swift, while kotlin can replace java completely and now it is aiming for native backend proj…

I'm skeptical of the strategic advantage of being backed by a tooling company, because of the fact that tooling is often a preference that comes with holy wars attached. If Emacs sponsored a language, how many Vim users would jump ship? I know plenty of Java devs that actually prefer Eclipse (WTF?!?!?). Good luck getting an entire team onboard with a single IDE. Throw in the fact that their IDE software is open sourc…

> If Emacs sponsored a language

I think you've missed something here...

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#72

Post by always_good »

coldtea wrote: post #66
adrianlmm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We disagree, "it won't be nice" is not a hyperbolic statement.

The whole phrase "it will implode and it won't be nice" implies some kind of big mess or even the company collapsing or whatever... Whereas it's just one of the things the company does, not even a profitable one, and at worst it will just fail to catch. Sure, that "wont be nice either". But hardly the kind of "not nice" to be really concerned with...

You're feeding a known troll. Look at their post history.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#73

Post by hasenj »

ptx wrote: post #64
coldtea wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because null is an acceptable value for a string object. Which is the same thing as in Java and plenty of other languages.

Not in Kotlin, though. You have to make it explicitly nullable if you want it to be null.

You can enable strict null checking.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#74

Post by adrianlmm »

always_good wrote: post #72
coldtea wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole phrase "it will implode and it won't be nice" implies some kind of big mess or even the company collapsing or whatever... Whereas it's just one of the things the company does, not even a profitable one, and at worst it will just fail to catch. Sure, that "wont be nice either". But hardly the kind of "not nice" to be really concerned with...

You're feeding a known troll. Look at their post history.

I didn't know that not falling for the Jetbrains marketing machine was catalogued as being a troll. I beg to differ.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#75

Post by mathw »

hasenj wrote: post #15
mathw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, but the problem with that is that they're doing it in JavaScript. Kotlin could offer better performance and certainly offers strong type safety throughout the stack, which I at least certainly believe gives a better programming experience.

Have you tried TypeScript?

A bit. It's an improvement, but if you're writing Kotlin on the backend then Kotlin/JS starts to look tempting on the basis that it's the same language everywhere.

Although using the same language in different environments obviously feels a bit different.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#76

Post by deno »

coldtea wrote: post #58
deno wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typescript is nice but its type system is not the strongest selling point. For example this compiles without warnings: const foo: Promise = Promise.resolve(null); const bar: Promise = foo; bar.then((value) => value.toString()); // runtime null error

That's because null is an acceptable value for a string object. Which is the same thing as in Java and plenty of other languages.

You can replace string|null with string|number in this example.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#77

Post by coldtea »

adrianlmm wrote: post #74
always_good wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're feeding a known troll. Look at their post history.

I didn't know that not falling for the Jetbrains marketing machine was catalogued as being a troll. I beg to differ.

The "Jetbrains marketing machine"? I could spend my whole life, visiting tons of programming forums and websites, and hardly see a Jetbrains ad ever.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#78

Post by proyb2 »

jorgemf wrote: post #19
proyb2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with Javascript can't handle complex computation where Swift could run on both Android, iOS, embedded, cloud, Linux and web server and majority of C/C++ libraries. Soon they might found way to implement Rust memory model, concurrency and Coroutine like Go. It will be nearly perfect or as good without writing 4 different languages. Kotlin could run on all supported platforms and reuse Java libraries.

You have coroutines in kotlin! and the support for native executables has started. Swift is also a very nice language, with a couple of issues: the tooling support and its instability in the first versions. But I also miss one thing from swift in kotlin: its memory model (maybe Rust one is better but I don't know it)

I know Microsoft contributed Coroutines to LLVM and now experimental in 4.0.0 and .Net core.

Which is even awesome for Microsoft to adopt LLVM.

Re: Kotlin/Native Tech Preview: Kotlin without a VM

#79

Post by adrianlmm »

coldtea wrote: post #77
adrianlmm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know that not falling for the Jetbrains marketing machine was catalogued as being a troll. I beg to differ.

The "Jetbrains marketing machine"? I could spend my whole life, visiting tons of programming forums and websites, and hardly see a Jetbrains ad ever.

You are wrongly assuming that their marketing team only use ads.
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