Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Lasting Consequences of Student Debt

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 209 posts

Re: The Lasting Consequences of Student Debt

#91

Post by pc86 »

austenallred wrote: post #12

The thing that irks me about this the most is how it's the people who were doing exactly what they were told that got hurt the most. The good kids who went to the best school they could get in to, studied whatever they were interested in, and if that thing happened to be literature or women's studies or a wide number of other things you might just spend the next 20 years figuring out how to live with debt you can't p…

> My entire generation was.

No we weren't. I was definitely encouraged to go to college and study something I enjoyed that was marketable. My parents' first concern when I switched away from pre-med to Political Science was "how will you get a job?"

I remember as a young child hearing my parents make a comment about a degree in "underwater basket-weaving" or similar. Getting a degree in a completely non-marketable skill has always negatively impacted your employability and your earning potential.

Re: The Lasting Consequences of Student Debt

#92

Post by antisthenes »

austenallred wrote: post #66
crusso wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying to get rid of the federal government backing of the loan? Let the banks making the loans sink or swim based upon the success of the students and their ability to pay it back?

In my ideal world (I'm trying to start a company that will eventually do this, but hard for obvious reasons) college would be a place where you "just show up," you learn what you need to, then you pay back the school with a percentage of income. The percentage piece aligns incentives, because the school is now invested in you earning the highest income, and it's now in part the school's responsibility to make sure it…

> I also think a system like this would help a lot of the social divide; right now it's much more risky for poor people to go to college (or trade school), so many opt out.

How does your system address the reduction in capacity that's going to happen once schools start optimizing for highest paid salaries.

Under your system, the first to go will be low paid degrees like women's studies, sociology, etc. and schools are going to optimize for STEM. It's more than probable that they will boost their STEM enrollment to professor/TA capacity, and axe most programs or cut them to make extremely selective.

I guess it's better than having people running in the real world with no skills, massive debt and a useless degree.

Re: The Lasting Consequences of Student Debt

#93

Post by agalarza »

austenallred wrote: post #72
ryandrake wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing that irks me about this the most is how it's the people who were doing exactly what they were told that got hurt the most. The good kids who went to the best school they could get in to, studied whatever they were interested in, and if that thing happened to be literature or women's studies or a wide number of other things you might just spend the next 20 years figuring out how to live with debt you can't…

I graduated high school in 2008 and dropped out of college a few years later. I can honestly say not one person (other than my parents) ever recommended considering cost until after my Freshman year of college. The message that was pounded in again and again and again was "The best college at all costs." I'm pretty sure that's no longer the case - at least I hope so.

Sorry if this is too personal, but did you think your parents were blowing hot air or something?

This thread has been eye-opening from the perspective of all these comments who (apparently) had negligible guidance from a group of people (parents) who absolutely need to talk about debt to their kids.

Maybe a silver lining in this topic is a generation of future parents who will have better conversations with their kids around going into debt for their college education.

Re: The Lasting Consequences of Student Debt

#94

Post by watwut »

r_smart wrote: post #33
austenallred wrote: post #12

The thing that irks me about this the most is how it's the people who were doing exactly what they were told that got hurt the most. The good kids who went to the best school they could get in to, studied whatever they were interested in, and if that thing happened to be literature or women's studies or a wide number of other things you might just spend the next 20 years figuring out how to live with debt you can't p…

Perhaps one of the silver linings of growing up poor was that I, and my friends, were conscious of money, or its lack. I wanted to pursue a writing degree and knew I shouldn't spend a ton of money on it, so I stayed local and worked to mostly pay my way through my first degree. My friends went to fancier schools, but did it in pursuit of business degrees, looking to get a good return on their education. The point bei…

According to this article, people who went to college still do better then people who did not went to college in terms of home ownership. Which is exactly the same result I have seen in other similar stats.

They are not doing as good as they were expected to and that has consequences. However, the assumption so many people in this discussion take for granted - that young college graduates did overwhelmingly stupid decisions is simply wrong.

Re: The Lasting Consequences of Student Debt

#95

Post by austenallred »

antisthenes wrote: post #92
austenallred wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my ideal world (I'm trying to start a company that will eventually do this, but hard for obvious reasons) college would be a place where you "just show up," you learn what you need to, then you pay back the school with a percentage of income. The percentage piece aligns incentives, because the school is now invested in you earning the highest income, and it's now in part the school's responsibility to make sure it…

> I also think a system like this would help a lot of the social divide; right now it's much more risky for poor people to go to college (or trade school), so many opt out. How does your system address the reduction in capacity that's going to happen once schools start optimizing for highest paid salaries. Under your system, the first to go will be low paid degrees like women's studies, sociology, etc. and schools ar…

To be fair I don't think any new system would replace the current university/college system wholesale, at least for a long time. Honestly I'd take the trade off of being able to study degrees that don't provide careers in my school, but that's just me. Such a solution probably wouldn't be right for 100% of people.

Re: The Lasting Consequences of Student Debt

#96

Post by austenallred »

winstonewert wrote: post #88
austenallred wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my ideal world (I'm trying to start a company that will eventually do this, but hard for obvious reasons) college would be a place where you "just show up," you learn what you need to, then you pay back the school with a percentage of income. The percentage piece aligns incentives, because the school is now invested in you earning the highest income, and it's now in part the school's responsibility to make sure it…

I like the idea in general, but a few issues seem problematic to me. The school would seem to have a strong incentive to only accept applicants who they are pretty sure will make a lot of money. The incentive isn't to teach anyone who shows up. The school would also seem to have a strong incentive to control the life decisions of students after they leave. i.e. they won't want to let students switch careers after the…

> The school would seem to have a strong incentive to only accept applicants who they are pretty sure will make a lot of money. The incentive isn't to teach anyone who shows up

That's true at first, but at a certain point the incremental cost of each additional student gets really low. Consider existing scholarships and financial aid - you can work in a level of "default" or "higher risk" into the student "portfolio".

> The school would have a strong incentive to control the lives of students

That's true

> Collecting a percentage of income might be difficult to enforce

Not sure how it's more difficult to enforce than any other type of debt, other than if income is misreported. (That's easy: require a W2).

> Legslly, can you sign a contract that permanently grants a percentage of your income?

I don't view it as a "permanently" thing. Just x% for the first y years.

Re: The Lasting Consequences of Student Debt

#97

Post by [deleted] »

ryandrake wrote: post #69
austenallred wrote: post #12

The thing that irks me about this the most is how it's the people who were doing exactly what they were told that got hurt the most. The good kids who went to the best school they could get in to, studied whatever they were interested in, and if that thing happened to be literature or women's studies or a wide number of other things you might just spend the next 20 years figuring out how to live with debt you can't p…

> The thing that irks me about this the most is how it's the people who were doing exactly what they were told that got hurt the most. The good kids who went to the best school they could get in to, studied whatever they were interested in, and if that thing happened to be literature or women's studies or a wide number of other things you might just spend the next 20 years figuring out how to live with debt you can't…

[deleted]

Re: The Lasting Consequences of Student Debt

#98

Post by r_smart »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #41
r_smart wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite things to knock on about is how we live in a capitalist society but our compulsory education doesn't ever address basic finance & economics. Most of these kids have no idea what interest is or what their post graduation payments are going to be like unless they've had the fortune of a knowledgeable parent or teacher taking the time to explain things. It's kind of shameful to me that I was 30 years…

I agree 100%. Out of my 4 years of high school, which included several AP classes, the best class I ever took was personal finance. It taught me how to manage money, calculate the cost of retirement, and think about what money is in the first place. Without the class, I would have severely suffered once I got on my own. The year after I graduated, the school removed the class because they felt it was irrelevant. The…

I really doubt there's some cabal of rich people that don't want others to understand interest. If anything, it would be to their advantage to have more potential business partners floating around out there.

I think the reality is more likely that people working in schools are public employees, they tend to be apathetic or hostile towards capitalism, and not terribly interested in boring business stuff. These are the people who set the curriculum.

Re: The Lasting Consequences of Student Debt

#99

Post by austenallred »

agalarza wrote: post #93
austenallred wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I graduated high school in 2008 and dropped out of college a few years later. I can honestly say not one person (other than my parents) ever recommended considering cost until after my Freshman year of college. The message that was pounded in again and again and again was "The best college at all costs." I'm pretty sure that's no longer the case - at least I hope so.

Sorry if this is too personal, but did you think your parents were blowing hot air or something? This thread has been eye-opening from the perspective of all these comments who (apparently) had negligible guidance from a group of people (parents) who absolutely need to talk about debt to their kids. Maybe a silver lining in this topic is a generation of future parents who will have better conversations with their kid…

No, I think I swung too far in that direction if anything. I decided not to go to Stanford because it would be too expensive (one semester's tuition at Stanford is about one year of median income where I'm from, and that scared me to death). Only years later did I learn it would have been free because of how much (or little) income my parents had. It still upsets me to think about it.

I now have an almost unhealthy fear of debt, to the extent that I don't even want to own a home until I can pay cash for it. (Though, to be fair, living in Silicon Valley right now with housing prices swinging $500k for what was a $500k house in a few years that fear may be somewhat healthy).

Re: The Lasting Consequences of Student Debt

#100

Post by r_smart »

watwut wrote: post #94
r_smart wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps one of the silver linings of growing up poor was that I, and my friends, were conscious of money, or its lack. I wanted to pursue a writing degree and knew I shouldn't spend a ton of money on it, so I stayed local and worked to mostly pay my way through my first degree. My friends went to fancier schools, but did it in pursuit of business degrees, looking to get a good return on their education. The point bei…

According to this article, people who went to college still do better then people who did not went to college in terms of home ownership. Which is exactly the same result I have seen in other similar stats. They are not doing as good as they were expected to and that has consequences. However, the assumption so many people in this discussion take for granted - that young college graduates did overwhelmingly stupid de…

Perhaps we're talking past each other here. You'll notice from my example that I and my friends all went to college. I'm not advocating against going to college. What I'm saying is there are a lot of options out there and the financial side should weigh in your decisions. I was getting a writing degree and decided that shooting for a big expensive school was probably a stupid idea. So I picked a far cheaper option, which allowed me to pay as I went, and graduate with ~$10k in loans after I finished.
Post reply on HN