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Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

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Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#281

Post by strictnein »

dagw wrote: post #241
xienze wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nicer house (or just a house, period), vacations, toys, earlier retirement, children...

I think it depends where you are in you life. I spent my 20s in an expensive city earning good money and 'wasting' it all on good old hedonistic fun and adventures. I'm now spending my 30s living in the suburbs as a dull respectable member the (upper)middle class. There is no way I would have wanted to live my 20s like I'm living my 30s, nor would I particularly want to live my 30s like I lived my 20s (even though I…

Nothing worse than drinking like you're in your 20s and waking up again in your 30s with your two kids crawling on you demanding breakfast.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#282

Post by Epenthesis »

taway_1212 wrote: post #162
prostoalex wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a fantastic developer in Ukraine, India or China and have very limited needs (compared to a guy with a family and kids), your disposable monthly income net of taxes, rent and commute expenses is still likely to be higher in Silicon Valley than Ukraine, India or China. A rational decision then would be to move to Silicon Valley arbitraging the costs as much as you can (living with roommates, commuting by Cal…

> If you're a fantastic developer in Ukraine, India or China and have very limited needs (compared to a guy with a family and kids), your disposable monthly income net of taxes, rent and commute expenses is still likely to be higher in Silicon Valley than Ukraine, India or China. I feel like I'm rather average developer, and live in Poland (more expensive than the countries you listed), and still managed to save over…

> 7 k$ per month in my last remote gig.

I'm saving that much on an ongoing basis at my full-time job in SF.

I do have a roommate, but, to be honest, the weather alone makes it worth it.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#283

Post by Epenthesis »

taway_1212 wrote: post #163
Swizec wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I moved to SF from Slovenia. The percentage of my income that I save* is smaller, but the absolute number is still bigger. Turns out the glass ceiling for "smart dirty immigrant" jobs is much higher than the ceiling for "remote dude" jobs as well. Add the nice bonus that there's simply more to do in a megalopolis of 6mio people than a city of 300k and it's kind of a no brainer. Unless of course you're okay stagn…

> Add the nice bonus that there's simply more to do in a megalopolis of 6mio people than a city of 300k and it's kind of a no brainer. Can you give an example? I've lived in London before and I don't think I saw a single thing available there (that I was interested in) that wasn't available in much smaller cities. I mean, why do you need thousands of restaurants and nightclubs, when in a small city you still have doz…

Speaking for myself: I'm a massive nerd. I need friendships with other nerdy people to be sane. There aren't that many nerdy people in my middle American home town of 300k people. There are many, many nerdy people in San Francisco.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#285

Post by muse900 »

anovikov wrote: post #277
muse900 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your comment, as there is a factor that increases the cost in the cities where developers live in. Bringing up Limassol though, is not a valid argument. Limassol on its own has had a lot of rich people from Russia moving there permanently and in the past few years a lot of development went on there. The Marina or the pier etc makes it feel like you are in Miami of some sorts, so that definitely bumps the…

These people have been there since decades ago, early 1990s, and not much new ones arrived recently apart from developers. Large scale corruptioners you mentioned definitely don't increase prices on cheap rental apartments.

The development of the area in general is though. Limassol 5 years ago is no where near to what Limassol Now has become. And that has nothing to do with Tech/Dev's moving to the area.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#286

Post by dang »

apexalpha wrote: post #82

> it was always a country to keep offshore companies/accounts, so every rich developer in ex-USSR already been there and knew the place, but since 2014 it started to make sense to move physically as well I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that since 3 years ago Cyprus (among others) 'sells' EU permanent residency permits to rich foreigners. You can imagin that an EU permanent residency permit, allowing you…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14029690 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#287

Post by eyko »

henrikschroder wrote: post #145
rubicon33 wrote: post #38

I used to live in SF. It was exciting, but also shitty. I felt connected and alive, which was great, but also drained of resources, which really sucked. Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment. I had the living room. Yea. I lasted 3 years, until I met my wife, and by then I was ready to move. We did. Now, life in the suburbs, is slow. I feel somewhat disconnected and like I don't really belong to this co…

> Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment. This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing. What on earth can make adults choose to share their home with a stranger? Why isn't there intense pressure for building many small apartments, rather than building larger apartments that are meant for roommates? Is it connected to the equally weird college dorm roommate system? Why are people ac…

I think your misunderstanding just comes from the use of the word "room". To make things simpler to understand: room does not always mean bedroom. There are many rooms in a house: living room, bath room, bed room. Roommate simply means someone you share some of those rooms with (usually bathroom, living room, kitchen...) but obviously not the bedroom.

So, in the case of "6 of us in a 3 bedroom apartment", then yes, they shared rooms, but it's not always the case (I would've expected 3 people in a 3 bedroom apartment). Perhaps parent meant 3 couples (6 people)?

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#288

Post by swyx »

fader wrote: post #271
apatters wrote: post #169

Speaking as a proponent of remote work, I think the reason is that remote workers are less productive in a _non-remote enabled culture._ And by default most companies are not remote enabled. They don't even understand what that means. This is totally reasonable, as we still have very few examples of large, successful teams that are fully remote. Many of the ones we do have aren't actually companies, Linux kernel deve…

Definitely. Companies can either "allow remote work" or be "remote first". I've worked at both types. The ones who are "allow remote work" are entirely office-focused and view remote workers with suspicion. A remote worker is very unlikely to get promoted, be able to take on interesting projects or large responsibilities. And they'll be out of the loop as far as what is going on in the company. (Even at a large compa…

where do you find these "remote first" companies? sites like weworkremotely.com? (am just starting out)

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#289

Post by infecto »

ivanvanderbyl wrote: post #63
rdtsc wrote: post #25

Because there is no critical mass to "work from anywhere". Amazon/Facebook/Google/Microsoft doesn't let its workers work from home in general. A lot of tech companies don't as well. So moving to CheapSmallTown means when losing the job still having to go back to ExpensiveTechHub to network and find a new job. So might as well stay in ExpensiveTechHub just to be sure. Imagine if all those large tech companies and othe…

It's worth pointing out that the "big four" tech companies aren't the only tech companies worth working at. You could very well have a higher upside working at a small, remotely friendly company, from Chiang Mai or Bali where the cost of living is 1/15th of SF, and still have a relative mass of expats doing similar things. Speaking from experience, I'm much more relaxed working from Bali, and I get paid only 20% less…

Would you mind exchanging emails? I would love to ask you more specifics about your experience as I am thinking of doing the same. Email in my profile.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#290

Post by [deleted] »

reason_police wrote: post #161

> people with self-determination, i.e., a country, have decided You know that's just flat out false, especially considering you've personally never been asked about it. > countries agree to give up part of sovereignty Again, you were not asked. Neither was any other ordinary person affected. > the tourist visa explicitly has a number of terms and conditions I brought up the idea of the Social Contract. You're talking…

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