Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Have you ever regretted hiring a developer?

news.ycombinator.com

111–114 of 114 posts

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever regretted hiring a developer?

#111
post #59

This reminds me that the laws for firing vary by state. I think California is one of the strictest in this area, right?

This reminds me that the laws for firing vary by state. I think California is one of the strictest in this area, right?

Actually, quite the opposite -- California is an "at-will" state.

From the website of an attorney who deals with employment issues in California [0]:

In the state of California, an employment relationship with no specified duration is considered to be employment “at-will.” This means that under California at-will employment laws both California employers and employees can terminate an employment relationship at any time, for any reason.

From another California law firm dealing with these issues [1]:

If you are an at-will employee, you can be fired or demoted on a whim, without warning, with no due process, for no reason at all, or even for a false reason.

There is some nuance though (back to the first site [0]):

However, while your employer may not need a “good” reason to fire you, there are exceptions to the at-will rule, including employment contracts that say an employee can only be fired “for cause,” or union agreements that lay out circumstances in which you can be fired. Because of these exceptions and others, California employees should always examine employment contracts, employee handbooks, and policies closely to find out what their employee rights actually entail under their contractual agreements.

The second site [1] goes into some detail:

California workers are loaded with rights. There are a million wrongful termination attorneys in California; they must be doing something. Because while you can be fired for no reason or even a made-up reason, the law also states that you cannot be discriminated against or fired or have any negative job action taken against you for a reason that violates public policy.

A long list of things that are illegal to use for firing, e.g. race, religion, gender, pregnancy, etc. follows and then the page continues:

These are the grounds for a discrimination claim, but there are many more public policy violations that would make a termination wrongful. For example, an employee can't be fired for serving on jury duty, or voting, or for trying to form a union, or for taking a leave under the Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA), or for filing a workers compensation claim. The list goes on and on. (In that regard, be glad you live in California. In some states, there is no public policy exception to the at-will rule.)

So, TL;DR:

California is an at-will state, meaning you can be fired at the drop of a hat, but there are certain protections you get automatically and certain things one may be able to do to protect oneself (e.g. getting an employment contract that specifies one can only be fired "for cause").

[0] http://employmentattorneyla.com/california-at-will-employmen...

[1] http://www.atwillinfo.com/

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever regretted hiring a developer?

#112
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After hiring they are depressingly unexcited about delivering a new feature that promises business value, significantly improves performance etc. It's just work to be done. Well...yeah, it is just work to do, because it's just a job. Turn it around: why should they be excited about something they have no meaningful ownership (and I don't mean a few tenths or hundredths of a percent) in? If the co-founder who owns f…

I'm not sure what to make of that. Assuming the product isn't genuinely boring, is it the norm then that developers without a direct financial incentive in the growth of the company should just be drones who type code in exchange for a salary?

There's also something to be said about a salary. A good salary isn't something to scoff at. If someone paid me a lot of money, and the product and underlying technologies were interesting, and I didn't have any business ideas myself at the time, I would feel odd not having any enthusiasm about the job.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever regretted hiring a developer?

#113

So far: - Takers: mentally healthy people, but heavily biased towards self-benefit and competition. Never a volunteer, tries to profit from every little interaction and sees everything as a zero-sum game. Only interjects in a conversation with the objective of gaining social rank, doesn't see value in altruism and collaboration, and is rude or dismissive to people considered lower ranking. - Neurotics: people charact…

Really well written. Thank you. I've definitely been the neurotic. Good learning experience. And I've seen some of the other two groups in other people.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever regretted hiring a developer?

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you're married to the fact that data should be an [object]. > How much time do OO programmers spend denormalizing data and using bloated ORMs? OO programmers that try to make data into objects sure. Those are the same programmers that love document based datastores because they don't have to think about their data - just get a nice "object" which fits their "everything must be an object" programming minds…

Thing is, data is relational, and data isn't an object Only if you are more concerned with the data first approach instead of thinking about the domain first. It's much better to use views of data, eg. "get me what I need to display a listing page in an eshop" - which entails getting the price, photos, title, description, delivery cost etc. - in a single list that you can then use - the database can do this for you -…

You are wrong, pure and simple. Please post back here in 5 or 10 years, let us know how that all worked out for you.
Post reply on HN