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Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

bloomberg.com

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Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#201

Post by [deleted] »

godelski wrote: post #157
djrogers wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing two different cohorts - newly graduated students, and everyone who has any student debt. Obviously the second group is going to have lower median and average, so comparing the two is pointless.

Because I think HN likes data I plotted some for ease. We can see that by linear fit the cost grows 2.5 times that of the number of students. The 2015 cost of school is 3.5 times that in 1990. The 2015 number of students is 1.47 that of 1990 students. Graph: https://i.imgur.com/Udj3leD.png Sources from: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_330.10.a... https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15…

[deleted]

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#202

Post by voxic11 »

dvdkhlng wrote: post #192
anigbrowl wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about this the other day looking at a billboard, talking about how Alive/Bob/Carol wasa winner! at the local casino, with a tiny 'play responsibly' box huddled in the corner. I don't have a strong opinion about gambling but I do care about externalities, and I was amused by the idea that some percentage of billboards (reflective of the incidence of problematic gambling) should feature Alive, Bob and Ca…

Note that for example in germany (and I'd guess in other parts of the EU also), there is a law that limits what "standard contracts" can do to a consumer [1]. I.e. whenever a business has one contract that it uses for more than one natural person, then that contract is considered an AGB thereby greatly limiting what kind of clauses would be considered valid in that contract. As far as I understand, many clauses will…

In the United States we have a judicial concept called a "contract of adhesion". For a contract to be treated as a contract of adhesion, it must be presented on a standard form on a "take it or leave it" basis, and give one party no ability to negotiate because of their unequal bargaining position. The court will treat any terms outside of the reasonable expectations of the person who did not write the contract as invalid, and any ambiguous terms will be interpreted in their favor also.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#203

Post by ryanalam »

So does anyone know where to find stats on student debt amounts outstanding, the maturity schedules, and the proportion of variable rate to fixed rate debt? I'm curious to see how vulnerable the country is to default risk should interest rates move upward or some other shock to the economy take place.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#204

Post by GotAnyMegadeth »

mod wrote: post #95
qbrass wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can bury things just as easily in a stack of single page sized letters.

No, it's really not just as easy--not in advertising.

Although I completely agree with you, I took it as a challenge to come up with something that follows the above rules and is still devious. Here is my 1 min of effort attempt: https://ibb.co/giqgDv

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#205

Post by BearGoesChirp »

anigbrowl wrote: post #61
noonespecial wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" I propose "the bigger the print, the stronger the statement". Therefore, if you make one claim in 24 point and then attempt to rescind or modify it in 8 point, the 24 is legally binding because it was larger and so nullified the smaller. This also means that if you want to place limitations (like 'one per customer' etc)…

I was thinking about this the other day looking at a billboard, talking about how Alive/Bob/Carol wasa winner! at the local casino, with a tiny 'play responsibly' box huddled in the corner. I don't have a strong opinion about gambling but I do care about externalities, and I was amused by the idea that some percentage of billboards (reflective of the incidence of problematic gambling) should feature Alive, Bob and Ca…

>The reality is that the huge and increasing information asymmetry between organizations and individuals leads inevitably to inequitable outcomes

Consider the following three statements.

Consent cannot exist when the information asymmetry becomes too great.

The information asymmetry between a massive corporation (as compared to some mom and pop shop) and an individual consumer is great enough to invalidate consent.

We allow and legally enforced consent between these entities (with very limited exceptions; even things like arbitration clauses tend to be binding).

One of the above statements cannot be true for us to be moral in our actions, yet all three seem true. I honestly have a moral issue with how this all works, even though I'm not sure how to fix it and recognize a fix may completely change how we do business.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#206

Post by Ygg2 »

taneq wrote: post #147
iandanforth wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Billboards would be blood oaths guaranteed by the life of the firstborn of the CEO.

Same with political advertising. This is a good thing.

Assuming politicians just won't have accepted descendants.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#208

Post by dvdkhlng »

voxic11 wrote: post #202
dvdkhlng wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that for example in germany (and I'd guess in other parts of the EU also), there is a law that limits what "standard contracts" can do to a consumer [1]. I.e. whenever a business has one contract that it uses for more than one natural person, then that contract is considered an AGB thereby greatly limiting what kind of clauses would be considered valid in that contract. As far as I understand, many clauses will…

In the United States we have a judicial concept called a "contract of adhesion". For a contract to be treated as a contract of adhesion, it must be presented on a standard form on a "take it or leave it" basis, and give one party no ability to negotiate because of their unequal bargaining position. The court will treat any terms outside of the reasonable expectations of the person who did not write the contract as in…

Interesting, didn't know this. This seems to be similar to AGB-Law, albeit pretty weak. While the US "contract of adhesion" [1] concept protects against terms "outside of the reasonable expectations", the AGB-Law [2] also protects against terms that are "unreasonably to the disadvantage" of the consumer. Arbitration clauses are not valid, for example.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_form_contract#Contrac...

[2] https://www.buzer.de/s1.htm?g=BGB&a=305-310

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#209

Post by voxic11 »

dvdkhlng wrote: post #208
voxic11 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the United States we have a judicial concept called a "contract of adhesion". For a contract to be treated as a contract of adhesion, it must be presented on a standard form on a "take it or leave it" basis, and give one party no ability to negotiate because of their unequal bargaining position. The court will treat any terms outside of the reasonable expectations of the person who did not write the contract as in…

Interesting, didn't know this. This seems to be similar to AGB-Law, albeit pretty weak. While the US "contract of adhesion" [1] concept protects against terms "outside of the reasonable expectations", the AGB-Law [2] also protects against terms that are "unreasonably to the disadvantage" of the consumer. Arbitration clauses are not valid, for example. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_form_contract#Contrac..…

Arbitration clauses here in the United States don't even required a valid contract, you can bind yourself to arbitration by simple agreement due to the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Arbitration_Act

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#210

Post by zip1234 »

techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

Yes, it is against the consumers. But why do the big companies have it? It certainly costs them a lot in legal fees to have all that fine print. Most of the time it is just CYA for them because they have been burned by lawsuits (some stupid, some not, all costly). As long as the US has a sue-happy culture, then we will see lots of fine print.
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