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Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

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Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#101

Post by brightball »

ohm wrote: post #100

Last time I tried Fedora after using Ubuntu, the minimize/maximize button was missing on windows. Turns out gnome team decided to remove it and Fedora does not restore the setting while Ubuntu does. This might seem childish but the fact that I had to make a change to the interface as a first step just after installation completely turned me off from the distribution.

Install the Gnome Tweak Tool and you can make lots of preference tweaks like that. I'd actually forgotten that they did that because I added them back too.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#102

Post by bflesch »

ohm wrote: post #100

Last time I tried Fedora after using Ubuntu, the minimize/maximize button was missing on windows. Turns out gnome team decided to remove it and Fedora does not restore the setting while Ubuntu does. This might seem childish but the fact that I had to make a change to the interface as a first step just after installation completely turned me off from the distribution.

I've repeatedly stumbled over these kinds of decisions by the gnome team. As a teenager I actually donated to the gnome foundation and I was very proud to receive some stickers via mail, but over the past years I realized that somehow their incentives are not aligned with mine.

Who in their right mind would remove those buttons? It can only be people who don't actually work with the system but think about further "improvements" all day. Very frustrating.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#103

Post by maweki »

broodbucket wrote: post #38

If anyone's interested in trying Fedora I'd suggest checking out Korora, it bundles the Fedora base with nice themes and some essential packages/repositories that Fedora refuses to bundle based on their free software guidelines (like VLC) and some more sensible defaults (like Firefox as default browser instead of Epiphany). https://kororaproject.org/

One can also install fedy which enables rpmfusion as well, as giving a nice interface for some additional software and tweaks.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#104

Post by reitanqild »

sandGorgon wrote: post #70

This is incredible. I had written a comment on the original thread on why I had moved to fedora after 14 years of using Ubuntu and this post confirms that I made the right choice. For some unkNown reason, Fedora is considered "bleeding edge" and unstable..While Ubuntu is considered mainstream. The truth is that fedora is probably the most polished Linux distribution out there right now..Including a brilliant UI exper…

For some unkNown reason, Fedora is considered "bleeding edge" and unstable..

I cannot say I never had problems with Ubuntu. But I can say I had worse problems with Fedora to the point where I gave it up.

I might have been unlucky but I think my experience is as relevant as anyone elses. No Linux specialist but have used Linux since 2003-ish and started with RH 7.2 or something.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#105

Post by captainmuon »

goombastic wrote: post #50

The biggest grouse I have with most linux desktops I have is the font rendering. I understand that it is to do with the patents on cleartype etc, but its been so many years with this problem

With slight hinting, and rgba subpixel rendering enabled, I found font rendering on Linux to be comparable to or even better than on Windows >= XP with ClearType. Definitely better than Windows 8+ DirectWrite. What you won't get without patching is Windows 2000 style aliased + hinted fonts, or OSX style rendering. But I think most of the complaints originated years ago, when you needed that kind of font rendering on CRTs.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#106

Post by captainmuon »

I'm a bit late to the party, but what I'd like most from Fedora (and by extension, Gnome / Systemd, ... devs) is something on the meta level.

This isn't meant to sound harsh, but I don't know how to say it. Please don't do the cascade of attention-deficient teenagers thing. Please take backwards compatibility seriously. And please give me a stable distribution.

Stable doesn't mean a years old Firefox. CentOS is not stable, it is stale. Stable can mean always going with the latest and greatest software. But it means I write a program now, and I can be sure it works 5 years later with no or minimal changes - and importantly, not looking fallen out-of-time! A frozen Gnome 3.24 is not stable, it is stale once development moves on. Gnome was stable in, say, ~2.14 - 2.28 (I'm just making the numbers up) - it was still receiving new features, widgets, themes. The same applies to Fedora as a whole.

If you have to ship multiple versions of libraries, then be it so. But even better would be to influcence the developers to avoid breaking changes. Take backwards compatibility religiously, like Microsoft. I know it is not easy, but that is what I'd really love to see (before e.g. three finger guestures).

There is a big overlap between Fedora developers, and Gnome/Glib/Systemd/Networkmanager/Wayland/... developers, so you are in a great position to do so.

All in all, I like do Fedora. As others have said, it is really polished, like Ubuntu used to be. I used to use Debian and Ubuntu, but when things started moving and breaking under me (and in order to get up to date things I couldn't just live on a ESR) I moved to Windows. Once the Wayland dust settles, I'm definitely looking to move back to Linux/Fedora again.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#107

Post by bkor »

goombastic wrote: post #50

The biggest grouse I have with most linux desktops I have is the font rendering. I understand that it is to do with the patents on cleartype etc, but its been so many years with this problem

The font rendering changes every so often (various years). Initially I get annoyed that it is different than before. Eventually I get used to it and get annoyed if it changes again. IMO it's just what you're used to.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#108

Post by karlmdavis »

As a couple of other folks have mentioned, it’s important to keep in mind that the premise of that original post was, "what could Ubuntu do better?" In that context, what you DON’T see there are the things that Ubuntu does well already, but that folks feel might be lacking in Fedora.

Speaking for myself, I can tell you that a HUGE part of the reason I stick with Ubuntu are their LTS releases. Those are just super important to me: more than most anything, I value a desktop that I don’t have to overhaul/reinstall on a frequent basis. Ubuntu’s five years of support puts it way out ahead of Fedora’s one.

(As a developer, I of course need to stay more up to date than the LTSes themselves are, but that’s what /usr/local/ is for. It’s trivial to keep those things up to date myself, and frankly, even Fedora would be too slow for me with most of that.)

[Note: I also cross-posted this comment on the blog itself.]

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#109

Post by bkor »

rkv wrote: post #45

I've tried running newer CentOS and Fedora GNOME environments but they always feel so much slower than Xfce or unity. When I open ps it shows gnome-shell constantly using 10% cpu and 20-30% memory. Opening menus and switching desktops is such a pain with all the delay. I found this true with Virtual Machines as well.

It doesn't use any CPU when idle for me? It does use a bunch when switching workspaces. But after that it drops back to 0%. It should NOT use CPU constantly.

There are memory leaks without any extensions, but usually it's an extension which causes the memory to increase.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#110

Post by reacweb »

captainmuon wrote: post #106

I'm a bit late to the party, but what I'd like most from Fedora (and by extension, Gnome / Systemd, ... devs) is something on the meta level. This isn't meant to sound harsh, but I don't know how to say it. Please don't do the cascade of attention-deficient teenagers thing. Please take backwards compatibility seriously. And please give me a stable distribution. Stable doesn't mean a years old Firefox. CentOS is not s…

Yes! IMHO a stable distribution is more important than new features. The fact that 16.04 has broken my network access because of my NAS mount point is one more proof that people at ubuntu and gnome are still trying to mimic windows and have not understood the differentiating advantages of unix: stability and network.

At work, my most used windows applications are firefox, putty, Xming and VNC viewer to access hundreds of sites (Portuguese, Nederlands, home computer and all the linux computers of the enterprise with a X11 display forward). Tunnels are configured in putty so that I can show my current projects without putting them on internet. My wife traveling with her laptop can wake the home PC (wake on lan) and mount the disks (sshfs) to access files.

I do not want to spend hours fixing system issues (like I did before on windows). I just want a stable system where I can add some minor customizations (like the PES preview http://torvalds-family.blogspot.fr/2010/01/embroidery-gaah.h...) and add some docker images with tailored development environments.

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