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Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

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Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#131

Post by jpatokal »

stonith wrote: post #119
jackgolding wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Melbourne like all Australian capital cities has congestion problems and very expensive housing. I've found myself wishing I was in the startup scene in Sydney instead (seems more mature and serious.)

I'm in Sydney and was under the impression the scene in Melbourne was much better! The grass is always greener...

I've lived in both, and I can assure you Sydney's startup/dev scene is far larger. For one thing, basically all the multinational IT giants (Google, Facebook, Amazon etc) have their Oz HQs in Sydney.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#132

Post by Lio »

vostok wrote: post #32

I make good money. Why would you expect me to live in the middle of nowhere when I can live in the greatest cities of the world?

I'll give you a reason, although it's a reason that's personal only to me, probably.

I love road cycling as a sport. IMHO cycling for pleasure sucks in cities, even ones with great cycling infrastructure.

The cycle paths are full of slow commuters calmly pootling their way to work|shops|date|whatever.

The roads in cities are full of distracted|incompetent|psychopathic drivers in motor vehicles all wanting to "punish" me for shaving my legs and wearing lycra.

The place for people like me is haring about in the lanes and hills of the sticks. :)

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#133

Post by stonith »

jpatokal wrote: post #131
stonith wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Sydney and was under the impression the scene in Melbourne was much better! The grass is always greener...

I've lived in both, and I can assure you Sydney's startup/dev scene is far larger. For one thing, basically all the multinational IT giants (Google, Facebook, Amazon etc) have their Oz HQs in Sydney.

Fair enough, although Facebook don't have any devs here, so I'm not sure they belong on that list. I found a bunch of places are similar in that they only have sales staff here - RedHat has most of their devs in Brisbane and Cisco has more in Melbourne, for example. Looking at Amazon's jobs page it seems like there's dev roles in Sydney at least, and Google definitely have devs here.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#134

Post by kimar »

hellofunk wrote: post #127
randomsearch wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many people I work with, even visiting the US is something they're trying to avoid.

Even for many Americans living overseas, visiting the US requires more to think about than before.

I second that.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#135

Post by throwanem »

reason_police wrote: post #112
apexalpha wrote: post #82

> it was always a country to keep offshore companies/accounts, so every rich developer in ex-USSR already been there and knew the place, but since 2014 it started to make sense to move physically as well I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that since 3 years ago Cyprus (among others) 'sells' EU permanent residency permits to rich foreigners. You can imagin that an EU permanent residency permit, allowing you…

> I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that since 3 years ago Cyprus (among others) 'sells' EU permanent residency permits to rich foreigners. You know, the solution to "problems" like that is to abolish visas altogether. A visa is essentially a permission to exist in a certain geographical area. Why exactly do you need one? Yes I know governments won't let you in/out without one, but what sense does it make…

Familiarize yourself with Chesterton's fence. It might give you some insight into one of the reasons why your rhetoric finds no traction.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#136

Post by Muromec »

hellofunk wrote: post #125
arjie wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone sells residency and citizenship. The list of desirable countries that don't is probably shorter than the list that do. Latvia, for instance, is much cheaper and gets you into Schengen with an investor visa followed up by investor citizenship.

I think Singapore gives you permanent resident status just for buying a house there! Of course, buying property in Singapore is no small feat for most people.

There is always an old trick of setting up a company and hiring yourself as qualified worker, then getting PR status in few years.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#137

Post by reustle »

Lio wrote: post #132
vostok wrote: post #32

I make good money. Why would you expect me to live in the middle of nowhere when I can live in the greatest cities of the world?

I'll give you a reason, although it's a reason that's personal only to me, probably. I love road cycling as a sport. IMHO cycling for pleasure sucks in cities, even ones with great cycling infrastructure. The cycle paths are full of slow commuters calmly pootling their way to work|shops|date|whatever. The roads in cities are full of distracted|incompetent|psychopathic drivers in motor vehicles all wanting to "punish"…

Sounds like you just need to move to a more bike friendly city/country :)

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#138

Post by georgiecasey »

adamors wrote: post #36
prostoalex wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a fantastic developer in Ukraine, India or China and have very limited needs (compared to a guy with a family and kids), your disposable monthly income net of taxes, rent and commute expenses is still likely to be higher in Silicon Valley than Ukraine, India or China. A rational decision then would be to move to Silicon Valley arbitraging the costs as much as you can (living with roommates, commuting by Cal…

Moving to the US is not a rational decision in 2017.

take a random sample of 100 devs in Ukraine and India and offer them a green card to the US of A. how many do you think would take it? and for people who wouldn't, how many do you think would cite Trump as their reason?

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#139

Post by septimus111 »

Here in the UK the difference between London vs the rest of the country is insane: I would love to live somewhere with a better quality of life but it's much harder to find a good job outside London. I wonder how much of the resistance to setting up offices in smaller cities is due to senior managers and engineers not wanting to move away because of kids / partners, or because at their level of income they can pretty much afford anywhere.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#140

Post by hellofunk »

Muromec wrote: post #136
hellofunk wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Singapore gives you permanent resident status just for buying a house there! Of course, buying property in Singapore is no small feat for most people.

There is always an old trick of setting up a company and hiring yourself as qualified worker, then getting PR status in few years.

In Singapore that still requires large capital investment in your company.
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