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Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

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Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#111

If the type of development work you're doing can be easily done remotely, then there is a good chance it can be done much cheaper by a fantastic developer in Ukraine, or India, or China, or some country where wages are a lot cheaper than US or England or Canada. If, however, the type of work you're doing benefits from face-to-face interactions (i.e. quick iterations with lots of feedback from users, marketing and pro…

> If the type of development work you're doing can be easily done remotely

All interesting types of development work can easily be done remotely. Google, Facebook, WhatsApp, name it. The unicorn billions are all things that never needed face-to-face spitting.

It is therefore probably the other way around. If the type of development work you're doing requires face-to-face spitting, you are not doing anything interesting anyway, and then it does not matter anyway, where exactly you are working on your next failure.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#112

> it was always a country to keep offshore companies/accounts, so every rich developer in ex-USSR already been there and knew the place, but since 2014 it started to make sense to move physically as well I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that since 3 years ago Cyprus (among others) 'sells' EU permanent residency permits to rich foreigners. You can imagin that an EU permanent residency permit, allowing you…

> I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that since 3 years ago Cyprus (among others) 'sells' EU permanent residency permits to rich foreigners.

You know, the solution to "problems" like that is to abolish visas altogether.

A visa is essentially a permission to exist in a certain geographical area. Why exactly do you need one?

Yes I know governments won't let you in/out without one, but what sense does it make?

What possible moral justification is there, for preventing you from moving freely when you're not harming anyone else?

You've heard of people "misusing" their visas, right? But how crazy is the idea of "misusing" your permission to exist in an area?

How crazy is it that visas come with a list of activities you're allowed to engage in?

For example, if you're on a tourist visa, you're not allowed to work in exchange for money, nor sell your company's product to someone.

You might think it's because governments need to keep track of who owes them taxes and how much, but um.. what sense does that make?

Say you were born in England and lived there all your life. Then you fly over to Thailand on a tourist visa, and you fix someone's bicycle in exchange for a small fee.

How/why is Thailand's government entitled to a cut of the money you made in doing that? If you believe in the Social Contract, does that get temporarily passed from England to Thailand, for the duration of your stay?

Or did you perhaps unwittingly sign a new one with Thailand, by entering their territory?

Would sitting on a plane that happens to cross some specific unseen line on a map constitute agreeing to a binding obligation to hand over some of your income to the organization "in charge" of the area you entered?

Of course not, but that's what The Rules say. But why/how are we bound by The Rules?

Well, we're not. Not in any objective, moral sense at all. But we all obey the rules anyway.

Why is that, besides to avoid being punished for disobedience?

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#113
I've had two jobs (including my current one) where I've been what you might call an "industrial analyst programmer". That is, I'm on site at a place that isn't service oriented or financial, the IT team is tiny, and I have to be the BA and the Programmer all in one. One involved me working at the maintenance department of an international airport, and the current one I am attached to a small factory and distribution centre.

It's a lifestyle I quite like, though I'm not sure how common such opportunities are. With the incredible wealth of information and communication options on the web I really don't feel like I'm some isolated backward village person who can't possibly know the same stuff someone in a city can.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#114

> it was always a country to keep offshore companies/accounts, so every rich developer in ex-USSR already been there and knew the place, but since 2014 it started to make sense to move physically as well I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that since 3 years ago Cyprus (among others) 'sells' EU permanent residency permits to rich foreigners. You can imagin that an EU permanent residency permit, allowing you…

Malta's still selling passports if you want in on EU and Schengen :)

http://www.maltaimmigration.com/

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#116
post #58

LOL it is the other way around, cities become most expensive because developers flock there and spend cash. This happens now in Limassol, Cyprus: crowds of developers, most having their own startups, started to flock there since 3 years ago from Russia, Belarus and Ukraine - it was always a country to keep offshore companies/accounts, so every rich developer in ex-USSR already been there and knew the place, but since…

Also very close to the thriving Israeli tech scene, which has lots of Russian-speaking developers (less Russian-speaking VCs).

Precisely. Short, one-hour flight, and pretty much the same time zone (barring differences related to when daylight savings takes effect) makes it easy to keep teams in Cyprus and Israel in sync.

Considering the massive shortage of developers in Israel, it really wouldn't surprise me to see deepening ties in the development community.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#117

> it was always a country to keep offshore companies/accounts, so every rich developer in ex-USSR already been there and knew the place, but since 2014 it started to make sense to move physically as well I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that since 3 years ago Cyprus (among others) 'sells' EU permanent residency permits to rich foreigners. You can imagin that an EU permanent residency permit, allowing you…

That is not a EU permanent residency permit. It is just for Cyprus. Cyprus is not even in Schengen, and this permit doesn't even allow free travel, you still need a visa to go even to Greece. It also gives no right to work or do any kind of business (even in Cyprus), i.e. it is against the goals of these people, it is mostly for retirees. A 2-year residence permit which becomes permanent in 5 years is easy to get in…

Just as an aside, Cyprus is in the process of joining Schengen "soon", along with Romania, Bulgaria, & Croatia.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#118
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone sells residency and citizenship. The list of desirable countries that don't is probably shorter than the list that do. Latvia, for instance, is much cheaper and gets you into Schengen with an investor visa followed up by investor citizenship.

Yep. Want to become resident in the UK? Agree to invest £1m and a "Tier 1" visa is yours: https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-investor . The US has a similar programme to sell Immigrant Investor Visas: https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate/Immigran... .

2m for a limited time visa. 5m if you want to settle

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Melbourne? Really? Is that a thing now? Maybe I need to head south for the winter.

Melbourne like all Australian capital cities has congestion problems and very expensive housing. I've found myself wishing I was in the startup scene in Sydney instead (seems more mature and serious.)

I'm in Sydney and was under the impression the scene in Melbourne was much better! The grass is always greener...

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#120

Ok. Let's look at Mark Zuck. He and his facebook plan were going to succeed anyway. If he had said, I need 10 000 devs working right next to me in Managua, Nicaragua, that is where they would be today. He didn't do it, but Zuck could have. Doing Facebook out of Managua would have worked, just like doing Skype out of Talinn, Estonia today works perfectly-well too.

No he couldn't have. He needed Bay Area investor money, he needed Bay Area connections and he needed the Bay Area press echo chamber. That's why he moved as a college kid out west to Palo Alto and not Nicaragua.
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