iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch • Hacker News Board

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#181

Post by qqg3 » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 8:33 AM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #143

Client is bad. I don't care, it's his problems. Service is not that good. I care about it, those could be my problems. I don't behave like that client, but who knows, what they don't like. Actually I'm surprised if it's legal to do. In my country, if you're doing public business, you can't choose your clients. You set price, client pays money, you serve client. You can't deny your service just because of reasons. The…

Client isn't "bad". They are a customer not a client, the relationship is so very different, you can't just fire a customer or tell them to go away, especially not if you're selling your product on Amazon where people have an expectation of quality.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#182

Post by rapht » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 8:33 AM UTC

jimmies wrote: post #41

I don't know why many comments about "the customer is clearly an asshole, therefore he deserves the lock not working/the company has the legal rights to do so blah blah" are modded so high right now. Even when the customer is an asshole, that has absolutely nothing to do with a security device betraying him or not. I'm very glad that the customer is now only denied access to the app. I can see one day a company that…

I absolutely second that.

And the problem is: the industry's interest is to lock you in on their cloud so that you end up paying a recurring fee of some sort, while the public's interest is clearly to be as free as possible from the manufacturer once you have purchased from them...

So until there is clear regulation about what you own, what you don't, and what your (preferably protective) rights really are when you purchase a device that relies on the manufacturer's cloud for operation, and even more generally, when you seem to own some thing but the manufacturer explains in the fine print that you only have a "license to use" that thing that limits what you can do with it ; until that, my friends, we're going to be at the mercy of manufacturers acting in their own interest, punto.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#183

Post by chrismatheson » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 8:35 AM UTC

This whole area feels like the territory the super-injunctions came out of.

There is almost no coming back from widespread bad publicity, no way to equally show the other side of the discussion, and its only getting easier to take your 5 minutes of frustration to the largest platform in the world and complain before doing a single minute of work, thought or reasoning.

I don't think its a bad attitude to simply say "I don't want to work with those who don't want to work with me."

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#184

Post by StavrosK » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 8:36 AM UTC

barking wrote: post #157

restlessmedia wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely agree. From an outsider, the reaction from Garadget will stay in my mind far longer than the initial review. Imagine this in a bricks and mortar high-street shop? 'The customer is always right' is a difficult but noble stance - if a customer is being difficult, suck it up, be sickly nice then go out the back and scream when they've left.

That's only because the reaction was so unusual. I'd react the way you suggest but I admire people who react the way he did. And, every now and then you hear of a business with a fuck you attitude that succeeds, e.g. Ryanair

Ryanair only succeeds because my tolerance for "fuck you" is more than my tolerance for expensive flights. The moment I have a cheap alternative, I'm never touching Ryanair again, and sometimes not even then.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#185

Post by mcbits » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 8:37 AM UTC

walid wrote: post #29

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #8

I can't decide whether this is legal or not. I am closer to siding _with_ Garadget in that as a private business, they don't HAVE to provide a service to someone (and it looks pretty obvious that there was no particular discrimination or the like); in fact, they have the right to refuse service. That said, the person also DID purchase a physical item (in fact, Garadget probably should have refunded them first, just b…

I think it should be illegal. Frame it in terms of a burger. If McDonald's says "since you say our food is bad we're messing with your burger after you bought it and we'll give you your money back if you return it" that would be illegal and probably, not sure though, a form of discrimination.

He didn't mess with the customer's garage door opener, so it's not like messing with a customer's burger. It's more like cutting the customer off from the unlimited coffee refills when they get 86'd from the restaurant.

(But the coffee cup is useless without coffee!)

However, linking the action to a bad Amazon review and publicizing the device ID both demonstrate very poor impulse control.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#186

Post by qqg3 » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 8:38 AM UTC

atemerev wrote: post #72

"Throwing a tantrum"? The review in question is something along the lines of "the control app is flashing and doesn't work at all. This is junk, don't waste your money on it. 1/5 stars." If you make any public facing products, you will occasionally get such (and worse) reviews even if your product is a shiny perfection forged in heaven by angels themselves and wrapped in magic. Fact of life. On the other hand, the su…

It's quite clear a lot of people in here are approaching this with a "B2B" mindset where clients and contracts can be fired and terminated.

This scenario is "B2C", "the customer is always right" may be a tired phrase but it rings truer than you might think.

A lot of people are saying this guy should be respectful of this small, indiegogo compnay. Problem is, they are ignoring the fact the product is being sold on Amazon, this may be the customers' only exposure to the company so they might not have any idea of how large the company/operation is! Customers have an expectation of quality on Amazon

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#187

Post by dawnerd » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 8:40 AM UTC

qqg3 wrote: post #180

cameldrv wrote: post #48

Usually Internet (and real life) shitstorms are made when two assholes collide. Customer may be an asshole trying to stick it to the little indiegogo guy in a way he knows will have a disproportionate impact. On the other hand, the iPhone app does really suck and crashes constantly. Even big companies can't seem to make reliable software these days. All of that said, you went into business, so time to put on the big…

> trying to stick it to the little indiegogo guy If it was purchased from Amazon the customer may not know anything about the indiegogo or the size of the "company". Just expected to get a working product.

Shouldn't matter indiegogo or not, a product SHOULD work.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#188

Post by PeterisP » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 8:40 AM UTC

dqv wrote: post #84

atemerev wrote: post #72

"Throwing a tantrum"? The review in question is something along the lines of "the control app is flashing and doesn't work at all. This is junk, don't waste your money on it. 1/5 stars." If you make any public facing products, you will occasionally get such (and worse) reviews even if your product is a shiny perfection forged in heaven by angels themselves and wrapped in magic. Fact of life. On the other hand, the su…

>I am also quite surprised by the number of comments here at HN siding with Garadget. I don't agree with disabling the customer's device, but I also don't agree with customers somehow being absolved of having a minimum level of decorum.

Calling a product a piece of shit is perfectly acceptable behavior, it often is a reasonable and accurate opinion about a product and definitely meets the standards of the "level of decorum" expected for customer product reviews.

Customers shouldn't be absolved of having a minimum level of decorum, but that minimum is at the level of (a) personal insults at specific people ("Bob in customer support is a piece of shit" wouldn't be ok but "your customer support system is a piece of shit" is fine) or (b) libel, as decided by the legal system.

For direct criticism of a product or service literally anything that I imagine would be above that minimum level of decorum. Insulting people is not ok, but insulting products definitely is.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#189

Post by atemerev » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 8:40 AM UTC

barking wrote: post #157

restlessmedia wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely agree. From an outsider, the reaction from Garadget will stay in my mind far longer than the initial review. Imagine this in a bricks and mortar high-street shop? 'The customer is always right' is a difficult but noble stance - if a customer is being difficult, suck it up, be sickly nice then go out the back and scream when they've left.

That's only because the reaction was so unusual. I'd react the way you suggest but I admire people who react the way he did. And, every now and then you hear of a business with a fuck you attitude that succeeds, e.g. Ryanair

And if Ryanair representative suddenly appeared here and banned you from ever flying with them because you talk shit about them on HN, you'd have been rightfully mad.

Even more so if you had the ticket on hands. :)

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#190

Post by usrusr » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 8:42 AM UTC

bschwindHN wrote: post #138

What's the right way to design an IoT product to not be dependent on a startup's cloud servers? - Allow the app/device to point to a different host (running an open source version of the backend)? - Support LAN connectivity without round-tripping to a third party server? - Allow the user to load their own firmware onto the device? I don't know where the line is for these things, it seems to be a balance of convenienc…

If you don't want to open everything right away, put protocol specifications, keys and the like into escrow somehow, to be published when the service is discontinued (it can't be tied to the company or brand because there will always be some form of legal successor). Run a domain called $productname-support-beyond-the-grave.com or so where the escrowed data would appear and for the time being use it to explain what you are doing and why buyers should be wary of competitors without a similar commitment. Keeping a repository like that up to date costs a lot of money, the shameless self-praise is how you would make it agreeable with budgeting.

There should be a service for that, with people who can build experience over multiple client lifecycles and a recognizable brand, maybe even a 3/4/5 star commitment rating that would go down e.g. when there are indications that the repository is getting stale relative to the deployed service/firmware of the still living company.