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iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

community.garadget.com

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Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#111

Post by Robin_Message »

victorhooi wrote: post #81
rkeene2 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems a bit like altering the terms of the sale after the sale has completed. He bought the product, he's entitled to the product -- a refund is not sufficient since the purchase cannot be rolled back.

Err, isn't that by definition what a refund is? You roll back the purchase? Customer gets his money back, Garadget gets the device - and they don't need to deal with each other again.

I'm not sure what the case law on this is, but if you form a contact to supply X and the X you supply is broken, it's not unreasonable for you to demand a working X is provided as per the contract (specific performance).

Also, bricking someone's device remotely* and giving them only the option of a refund is dangerously close to criminal damage of their property.

* Although in this case it sounds like they blocked it on their side rather than remotely killing the device.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#112

Post by [deleted] »

victorhooi wrote: post #81
rkeene2 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems a bit like altering the terms of the sale after the sale has completed. He bought the product, he's entitled to the product -- a refund is not sufficient since the purchase cannot be rolled back.

Err, isn't that by definition what a refund is? You roll back the purchase? Customer gets his money back, Garadget gets the device - and they don't need to deal with each other again.

[deleted]

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#113

Post by kungtotte »

erikb wrote: post #51
cameldrv wrote: post #48

Usually Internet (and real life) shitstorms are made when two assholes collide. Customer may be an asshole trying to stick it to the little indiegogo guy in a way he knows will have a disproportionate impact. On the other hand, the iPhone app does really suck and crashes constantly. Even big companies can't seem to make reliable software these days. All of that said, you went into business, so time to put on the big…

Well, he's also offering a refund. Not sure where the problem is in that case with the service provider's response. If you have sh*tty customers it's smart to drop them fast and focus on your good customers.

Yeah, he bricked the device and then told him his only option was to return and refund through Amazon.

Let's not pretend that Garadget is somehow being magnanimous here.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#114

Post by bigbugbag »

I'm not sure what annoys me the most in this story, that the developer tracks users and punish customers that s/he doesn't like or that some people are "buying" "cloud" based software with no understanding that this means they are denied control and ownership of said software and that it will stop working the instant the company folds the servers.

Foucault's "Surveiller et Punir" (Watch and punish) makes me wonder how cloud and smartphone are not so different from being locked up in a jail.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#115

Post by Entalpi »

Yeah, negativity/hate is not a reason to force your customers to refund their purchases. This is basically illegal, atleast in Sweden if not the EU since this voids the functionality of the product with an intent to discriminate against a group of people.

Its also a dick move just in the casual way.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#116

Post by cgag »

eps wrote: post #30

Not "for negative Amazon review", but for being an asshole. This guy forgot that there are people behind every product and the abstraction is as thin as it gets when it is in fact a smaller company or a startup. There are negative reviews and there are nasty reviews. He was nasty to them and they no longer wanted him as a client. No reason why a company should swallow shit that a person wouldn't. They certainly _can_…

It's a real person who gave you real money and is wasting their time with the defective product sold to them as well.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#117

Post by woof »

mirimir wrote: post #108
woof wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your unit ID 2f0036... will be denied server connection" The Garadget device, not the customers phone! I never mentioned a phone, did I?

It's an app, so virtual device, I guess.

The "Garadget controller" (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/softcomplex/garadget-ga...) looks like a physical device to me.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#118

Post by michaelt »

victorhooi wrote: post #88
woof wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He disabled the device. And you don't see the issue?

We are talking about the device that he sold him right? Not the iPhone? Lol. He offered a full refund (although he admittedly could be a bit more tactful). If he's said - I'm disabling it, too bad, I'd agree that's out of line. However, what was actually said was - You're a jerk - I don't want your business, give me back the device, and I'll give you the money back. Now they don't have to deal with each other, and no…

The issue is we've entered an age where, because of devices' entanglement with the cloud, the manufacturer's interest in the object isn't exhausted at the moment of sale. This is a big change in the way things have traditionally been done, and in the long term it could have major consequences.

This isn't the first time something like this has happened - but usually manufacturers are pretty reticent about it, and try to avoid looking capricious in their actions. When Amazon removed books from customers' Kindles they got a bunch of flack for it, even though there was some sort of reason involving the copy not having been licensed properly, or something.

If I brought a normal washing machine and it leaked a lot, I could post a factual review on line without fear of retribution. If I brought an internet-enabled washing machine and it leaked a lot, should I expect that posting a factual review online would get my washing machine remotely disabled? This would not be good for getting trustworthy reviews.

And if a device can be remotely disabled because of a negative review, can it also be disabled because, say, I'm a Yankees supporter and the guy taking my support call thinks Yankees suck? What if the support guy thought it would be funny to see me hopping on one foot while holding a shoe on my head - can he disable my device until I send him a video of that?

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#119

Post by chopin »

victorhooi wrote: post #81
rkeene2 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems a bit like altering the terms of the sale after the sale has completed. He bought the product, he's entitled to the product -- a refund is not sufficient since the purchase cannot be rolled back.

Err, isn't that by definition what a refund is? You roll back the purchase? Customer gets his money back, Garadget gets the device - and they don't need to deal with each other again.

At least in Germany, you are not entitled to enforce this by disabling the purchase. That could backfire badly.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#120

Post by antfarm »

From the Amazon product page Q&A:

What happens if the company goes out of business? Does the app require a server to be active in order to use the App?

The app requires a server component as does any consumer friendly product with mobile access. There is a plan to add the support for server-less mode, though it will require users to configure domain name service and firewall. The main server component is maintained by the Particle and pre-paid for the life of the device. Additionally, unlike many products bricked by the companies going out if business, Garadget is an open source system so it welcomes third-party solutions.

[https://www.amazon.com/forum/-/Tx1SJ70QRGDYZAY/ref=ask_dp_dp...]

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