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Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

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Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#171
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The energy drink company's interest is to minimize its cost. Years of bad behavior in this regard eventually led to pure food/drug laws, but in places with weak rule of law plenty of people are still poisoned by dodgy food.

Oh yes, absolutely. We have laws banning outright fraud, setting minimum food safety standards, a lot of rules about packaging and labelling. And that's good! But we don't have any laws or expectation that a food vendor is going to be acting in my best interests. If I want to spend my rent money on 87 large pepperoni pizzas, nobody is going to arrest the guy who took my order because he didn't sit down and have a 30…

It's not as simple as that.

They are a servicer, not a lender -- they are contracted by the lender to collect the money from the borrower. So the borrowers never asked to be customers of Navient. They borrowed some money from a bank or the government, who then contracted Navient to service the loans.

Now servicing loans is like owning an interest only bond -- you get a small payment every month as long as the loan is paying. When you own servicing rights, what you want to do is for payments to drag on for as long as possible -- since you don't get the principal, having the loan pay early is the second worst thing that can happen.

Now its very possible that Navient is doing things which are not in the interest of either the borrower or the lender, but are in the interest of Navient. And it's likely perfectly legal.

But again many of these loans are not just simple transactions in the marketplace, but rather subsidized social programs, where the government in promoting the program has a reasonable expectation that some part of this subsidy should fall to the borrower, and is reasonable frustrated when a provider whom they have hired tries to prevent this.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to actually argue for or against, but mortgage holders don't hand 5 or 6 figures of unsecured debt to an 18 year old without any due diligence on if the loan has a chance of being repaid.

Student loan servicers are guaranteed repayment by statute. They are in a much easier business than mortgage lenders. That said, Navient is in the business of collecting on debts, and they have every right to do so within the bounds of the law. They don't owe borrowers anything.

And those statues are the only reason student loans exist. It's a laughable idea, at the scale they are now anyway, otherwise.

I don't personally expect Navient to do anything better than follow the law; I don't expect any help or counseling from them. In fact, I'd be suspect of any such counsellings.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#173
post #52

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

> So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? Because that's the default rule when it comes to arm's-length transactions in the economy? Unless there is a special relationship ( e.g. doctor-patient), everyone takes care of their end of the transaction. The government offers very generous loan repayment options for student borrowers. It's Navient's job to collect payme…

> Why should it be its job to help borrowers figure out their repayment options?

Because their customer who is paying them to service the loans wants them to.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Let people know what they're getting into.* Are you suggesting that when people signed for the loan - which was not with Navient, as they're on the servicing and collections side - that they didn't know what the terms of repayment would be?

When I got my student loans, I had to do a whole bunch of online orientation. It included the various repayment plans, and even what the monthly oayment would be under each plan, and how much total interest each plan would eventually cost me. I think its a federal requirement that this information is provided before the loans are disbursed. If someone doesn't take the time to understand their student loans, which are…

I'm glad you got that coaching, but I don't think that is very universal as a practice... My student loans were handed over with the usual fine-print paperweight. I had prior knowledge of how they worked, and fortunately never had to seek payment remediation, but that's just me being lucky. I want a system that mandates supportive care of the customer (who, in this case, is not a professional financial investor, but most likely a kid without a wealth of life experience to draw on).

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, then... New rule: the primary loan provider for higher education in America - education that is argued in many circles as being a public good and benefit to society - shall be considered to be in a "special relationship" with the student borrower... Let people know what they're getting into. I don't see how this should be any different from the relationship a fiduciary has with his/her client. Can we make this…

* Let people know what they're getting into.* Are you suggesting that when people signed for the loan - which was not with Navient, as they're on the servicing and collections side - that they didn't know what the terms of repayment would be?

The central problem I have with a loan like this is that it is tied to a socially encouraged activity that is central to most Americans' ideas of a successful path to adulthood. If we're going to socially encourage this, it needs to have some backstops to catch folks who fall.

Whether the collections is outsourced or insourced, your average student borrower isn't planning on having their life's trajectory fall apart. They aren't expecting the hardships that lead them to need remediation. However many warnings you provide them on the front end, it's at the time of crisis that they need advice and guidance. Navient has been horribly negligent and predatory in this regard. Anyone taking on the job of preferred collector of gov't loans should be required to act in the interests of the borrowers - aka the American public.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#176
post #52

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

> So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? Because that's the default rule when it comes to arm's-length transactions in the economy? Unless there is a special relationship ( e.g. doctor-patient), everyone takes care of their end of the transaction. The government offers very generous loan repayment options for student borrowers. It's Navient's job to collect payme…

The government offers very generous loan repayment options for student borrowers.

From what I understand, I don't think that the US government is generous at all with their student borrowers. Yes, they allow more flexibility around repayment options than do many other lenders. However, the government has largely eliminated the option of personal bankruptcy [1] for student loans. So, they're really just as complicit in this mess as the for-profit colleges and the loan collection agencies.

[1] http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/student-loan-debt-ban...

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#177
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>the combined assets of the entire class of student debtors is probably NEGATIVE Doesn't matter. As the saying goes: if you owe the bank $1,000, you have a problem. If you owe the bank $100,000,000, the bank has a problem. Debtors as a group probably would have a great deal of collective bargaining power.

This is a pretty interesting idea. I have never heard of debtors banding together to negotiate lower debts before.

I'm not sure what you hope to get from it.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#179

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

>I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" I propose "the bigger the print, the stronger the statement". Therefore, if you make one claim in 24 point and then attempt to rescind or modify it in 8 point, the 24 is legally binding because it was larger and so nullified the smaller. This also means that if you want to place limitations (like 'one per customer' etc)…

I believe that is a bit of an oversimplification of the overall thing.

Most of the legal agreements - customer/consumer usually lose because of the super vague and often-in-favor of the company providing the loan/service.

I am not sure if you meant font size literally.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, those who clung to the system that taught them to be a good little employee. The traditional education system has led many astray without providing successful alternatives.

As opposed to what? Being another entrepreneur, bootstrapping genius raking in million dollar exits? Are those the only viable life paths these days?

No, go learn a trade, join a union, and in 5-10 years, make 100k+...

You can easily make what an average lead developer makes if you pursue a career in the industrial operations industry (power plant operator, bulk electric system operator, etc.)

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