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Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

bloomberg.com

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Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#151

Post by gech »

Lazare wrote: post #86
techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

> So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I dunno, why wouldn't it be okay? I interact with a lot of companies on a day-to-day basis; big ones (Facebook, Google), small ones (the corner shop I bought an energy drink at on my way to work), and everything in between. Offhand I'd say that none of them have a legal expectation to work in my best interest, nor would I…

Why can't we empower good institutions and disempower shitty ones, for the sake of humanity and the betterment of our species?

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#152

Post by rbcgerard »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #110
techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

One of the measures from Dodd-Frank that the current administration wants to roll back is a provision that investment professionals act in the best interest of their clients. Presumably, they want the option to steer you towards their in house funds that have the highest fees instead of helping you het the max return on your investment.

I actually have no problem with this, I have a bigger problem with the misnaming of people's roles - I.e. It's BS to call a stock broker without a fiduciary duty a "financial advisor" but if they're called a Sales Rep I have no problem if they're not looking out for you

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#153

Post by eli_gottlieb »

metaphorm wrote: post #38
cbennett wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> shareholder capitalism. they have zero accountability except to their shareholders. Random thought that just came to mind. Have coalition of debt holders (borrowers ) ever considered buying stock in these companies to influence them in the form of another company that is jointly owned or invested in by thousands or tens of thousands of folks? Eg, mass activism campaign launches request for everyone to invest X% of…

the combined assets of the entire class of student debtors is probably NEGATIVE (they are debtors, remember) whereas the assets of even a single major shareholder (Carl Icahn as a benchmark) are in the billions of dollars and outweigh the rest of it combined. this is one of the side effects of the massive income and wealth inequality American style capitalism causes.

We need to be a little more clear: Carl Icahn's asset is the students' debts. That is what his wealth is made out of, in the way that soda is made out of corn syrup and water. No student debt would mean Carl Icahn would have to make an honest living, and he's not gonna go quietly.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#154

Post by ctdonath »

techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we're all just supposed to be OK with this, as if this is how the world works or some crap.

So reject it already. Use cash. Spend only money you already have. Keep it simple; don't accept anything that comes with fine print. It's really not hard, you're just not used to saying "no" to it.

The world, as you function in it, is OK with how this works. Nobody is forcing you to comply.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#155

Post by 0xffff2 »

leesalminen wrote: post #53
jmcphers wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Department of Education has stats on the average salary after graduation at many institutions (realize this is only a weak proxy for the signals you want, but is at least correlated). You can play with, and download, their data here: https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/

Just looked up the school I dropped out of. I made >2x in my first year of dropping out than what it says is average salary for new graduates. Suckers.

Consider that perhaps you do not represent the average student at that school.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#156

Post by prostoalex »

OrwellianChild wrote: post #97
rayiner wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? Because that's the default rule when it comes to arm's-length transactions in the economy? Unless there is a special relationship ( e.g. doctor-patient), everyone takes care of their end of the transaction. The government offers very generous loan repayment options for student borrowers. It's Navient's job to collect payme…

Okay, then... New rule: the primary loan provider for higher education in America - education that is argued in many circles as being a public good and benefit to society - shall be considered to be in a "special relationship" with the student borrower... Let people know what they're getting into. I don't see how this should be any different from the relationship a fiduciary has with his/her client. Can we make this…

> Let people know what they're getting into.

Let's say an honest lending start-up rushes to fill this niche and then rejects people's applications based on imperfect academic record, lack of summer jobs or internships (so potential laziness), subpar math skills and very minimal knowledge of foreign languages (so indicative of poor information retention). It also honestly tells you that art history majors have no place in a business world, and honestly maybe a career in plumbing is a better fit.

This is just based on their model, and the rejection is worded in a nice, legally safe and sound, way.

How long before such lender is being sued into oblivion for discriminatory practices?

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#157

Post by godelski »

djrogers wrote: post #105
adventured wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The median student debt is a lot more interesting, it's much lower than $30,000. The median of all outstanding student debt is around $14,000 today (for households that have any student debt). The median debt for individuals that went to public universities is closer to $10,000. The average is massively skewed by the top few percentage of all borrowers that have taken on almost unfathomable loans.

You're comparing two different cohorts - newly graduated students, and everyone who has any student debt. Obviously the second group is going to have lower median and average, so comparing the two is pointless.

Because I think HN likes data I plotted some for ease. We can see that by linear fit the cost grows 2.5 times that of the number of students. The 2015 cost of school is 3.5 times that in 1990. The 2015 number of students is 1.47 that of 1990 students.

Graph: https://i.imgur.com/Udj3leD.png

Sources from: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_330.10.a...

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_105.20.a...

Note* 2015 students were estimated and slope is from linear fit.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#158

Post by prostoalex »

cbennett wrote: post #31
metaphorm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? shareholder capitalism. they have zero accountability except to their shareholders.

> shareholder capitalism. they have zero accountability except to their shareholders. Random thought that just came to mind. Have coalition of debt holders (borrowers ) ever considered buying stock in these companies to influence them in the form of another company that is jointly owned or invested in by thousands or tens of thousands of folks? Eg, mass activism campaign launches request for everyone to invest X% of…

Navient is a servicer. They make sure the money gets from the borrower's account into the lender's account on time. Their revenue consists entirely of the fees paid by the lenders for providing this service.

Make radical changes that impact the servicer negatively and the lender will switch to a new servicer to manage its payment flow.

The coalition of debt holders is now stuck with shares of some underperforming servicing company that just lost a huge contract.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#159

Post by da02 »

rhino369 wrote: post #64
jordanmoconnor wrote: post #5

It's mind-blowing how the majority of high school students are lied to each year about the ROI of college. The internet has re-written the rules, and high school educators don't know how to teach that. I would have benefited so much more from a program that taught how to be self-sufficient and the major, major benefits of living debt free. Context: $150k in student loans - lucky enough to have an electrical engineeri…

College degrees still mostly have a good ROI. The huge lie is the ROI on pedigree, prestige, whatever you want to call it. Kids are still being told to apply to expensive small private schools and to worry about the financial aid process later. Kids are told to find the right fit. None of that really matters. The big ROI is just getting a degree or the type of degree. There are few elite schools that have a much bett…

How did he get accepted into Stanford? Academic qualifications plus leadership/extra-circular activities? Or solely on grades?

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#160

Post by bluejekyll »

noonespecial wrote: post #9
techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

>I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" I propose "the bigger the print, the stronger the statement". Therefore, if you make one claim in 24 point and then attempt to rescind or modify it in 8 point, the 24 is legally binding because it was larger and so nullified the smaller. This also means that if you want to place limitations (like 'one per customer' etc)…

Actually, this seems like a reasonable court case could test the waters given the right circumstances.

Basically, if your contact/agreement is not upfront about the downsides then those are nullified.

Sadly, people might still decide to do it. Definitely seems like usury laws would apply.

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