Somewhat related, when can I hitch my Fifth Wheel to a Tesla 1 ton truck?
3-5 years. Truck is probably there next or 2nd next model. Expect announcement after model 3delivery.
Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
481–490 of 604 posts
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#482Former finance professional here: Ford is actually worth 3 times as much as Tesla, once you factor in debt. The total value of the Ford capital structure ("enterprise value") is about 150 billion.
When two companies have wildly different capital structures, you have to compare them on enterprise value, not the market cap of their equity. So while I give kudos to Tesla for building a valuable business, it still has a long way to go to catch up to Ford.
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#483Earlier quoted context omitted.
The farther the car goes to park, the longer the wait for it to pick you up on demand. Not to mention, traveling a few blocks rarely saves much on parking in densely populated areas.
It can travel way further than "a few blocks" and I'd guess most trips are not so unexpected that it's impossible to accept a delay of 30 minutes or maybe even longer.
If your parking spot isn't included as part of the building where you live, then you're going to have to either buy some more property (however small or far away) to keep your car, or pay someone to let you park your car on theirs.
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#484Earlier quoted context omitted.
It can travel way further than "a few blocks" and I'd guess most trips are not so unexpected that it's impossible to accept a delay of 30 minutes or maybe even longer.
If your parking spot isn't included as part of the building where you live, then you're going to have to either buy some more property (however small or far away) to keep your car, or pay someone to let you park your car on theirs.
Yes, agreed, but if you live in a major city that's already the case (or you drive around for an hour looking for a space, something the self-driving car could also do).
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#485Former finance professional here: Ford is actually worth 3 times as much as Tesla, once you factor in debt. The total value of the Ford capital structure ("enterprise value") is about 150 billion. When two companies have wildly different capital structures, you have to compare them on enterprise value, not the market cap of their equity. So while I give kudos to Tesla for building a valuable business, it still has a…
Sorry, can you elaborate a little more on how debt factors into enterprise value? I've heard this before and don't fully understand.
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#486Earlier quoted context omitted.
If your parking spot isn't included as part of the building where you live, then you're going to have to either buy some more property (however small or far away) to keep your car, or pay someone to let you park your car on theirs.
Yes, agreed, but if you live in a major city that's already the case (or you drive around for an hour looking for a space, something the self-driving car could also do).
Right. And so my point is the expense and inconvenience of parking in cities is incentive for you to either (a) not buy a car, and instead use an on-demand (self-driving) rideshare service, or (b) buy a car, and recoup costs at little inconvenience by putting it into a self-driving rideshare pool.
The end result is fewer cars owned by fewer people, but utilized much more fully, so the cars that do exist in cities spend more of their time driving and in-service, rather than sitting parked and empty for 98% of their lifetimes.
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#487Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Over the last five years, Ford has posted net income totaling $26 billion, while Tesla has lost $2.3 billion. Ford: "We have no idea how to invest this money. I guess let's just put it in the bank." Tesla: "We have so many idea for investments, we're only constrained by cash. Let's go back to the capital markets!"
More like Ford investors: "Let me soberly evaluate the company's present and future financial situation before I make any commitments" Tesla investors: "TAKE MY MONEY"
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Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#488Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if CO2 to petroleum were 100% efficient, you're still throwing away 70+% of the energy by burning it in an ICE rather than putting it in a battery as electricity. Any likely method of CO2 to petroleum is likely to be below 50%, more like 15-30% efficient. Round-trip efficiency an entire order of magnitude worse than battery. That's why batteries are better for ground-based applications and will remain so.
I'm honestly not sure the assumptions underlying your comment. Solar cell to battery is pretty inefficient at the moment with the best solar cells converting 26% of the solar energy hitting the cell into electricity and the charge-discharge efficiency of li ion cells is 80-90%. The ultimate amount of energy delivered is less than 30%. Regardless, if any of the biological/algal methods of CO2 to fuel techniques become…
Round-trip electricity efficiency is what I was referring to, assuming you'd use electricity. If you have to synthesize fuel using electricity and then burn it to produce either movement (shaft-power) or electricity, the efficiency is on the order of 10%. Whereas for batteries, the efficiency is on the order of 80-90%.
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#489Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, agreed, but if you live in a major city that's already the case (or you drive around for an hour looking for a space, something the self-driving car could also do).
Right. And so my point is the expense and inconvenience of parking in cities is incentive for you to either (a) not buy a car, and instead use an on-demand (self-driving) rideshare service, or (b) buy a car, and recoup costs at little inconvenience by putting it into a self-driving rideshare pool. The end result is fewer cars owned by fewer people, but utilized much more fully, so the cars that do exist in cities spe…
But a self-driving car that can either find street parking or else drive to some suburban lot makes that incentive much weaker, not stronger?
Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value
#490Former finance professional here: Ford is actually worth 3 times as much as Tesla, once you factor in debt. The total value of the Ford capital structure ("enterprise value") is about 150 billion. When two companies have wildly different capital structures, you have to compare them on enterprise value, not the market cap of their equity. So while I give kudos to Tesla for building a valuable business, it still has a…
Sorry, can you elaborate a little more on how debt factors into enterprise value? I've heard this before and don't fully understand.
Market cap tells you the value of everything: both the business and its money (cash & debt).
Enterprise value is the value of the business (the thing actually generating value) separate from the cash & debt it's holding.
For example, if I have a banana stand worth $250K, but inside the banana stand is a briefcase with $245K, then the $250K is not really the value of the banana stand - it's mostly the value of the cash inside. The Enterprise value of the banana stand is only $5K.
With the debt, the idea is the same but the sign is opposite. So if Ford is worth $50B while holding onto $100B of debt, that implies that the enterprise value is $150B.
Comparing the valuations of Ford and Tesla without subtracting out cash and debt is like running a race without mentioning that the losing racer started a half mile behind. Though they 'lost' by one metric, they're still the faster runner.