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UK researchers create graphene-based sieve that can remove salt from seawater

bbc.com

31–40 of 117 posts

Re: UK researchers create graphene-based sieve that can remove salt from seawater

#31

Reverse osmosis has been around for a long time and is used on boats everywhere for desalination. This sounds like a new membrane that requires less pressure and thus energy? I guess sieve sounded better?

RO membranes are notoriously finicky and non-robust. They require a lot of maintenance and can be ruined by common chemicals like chlorine. A more robust desalination membrane would be a very good thing.

When I was involved in RO in the early eighties, that was exactly the issue. In the context of offshore drilling rigs, we just couldn't get the adherence to protocol around flushing and filtering that the units needed to work over a reasonable lifetime.

We eventually gave up and went with an Alfa-Laval heat exchanger based approach.

Re: UK researchers create graphene-based sieve that can remove salt from seawater

#32
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question, as always, is how much energy it takes to do the filtering.

Yup. Sieve implies that the only energy required is that necessary to pump the water to a level above the filter. I highly doubt that is the case. Surely you need some significant pressure differential. Even with pores the size of proteins (100x+ larger) you need pressure.

What you're describing is Reverse Osmosis - pushing salt water through a water permeable, salt impermeable membrane. It requires very large pressures, on the order of 2-30 atmospheres of pressure. The membranes used are incredibly cheap, most of the cost of RO is the pumps and maintenance. IMO innovations on the membrane are pretty marginal to the cost of RO and are usually done for hype.

Re: UK researchers create graphene-based sieve that can remove salt from seawater

#33
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the discovery of new basic science to commercialization usually takes 30 - 40 years. We're not even halfway there yet. E.g. look at how long it took to develop digital cameras, flat screen TVs, etc.

Is that really still true in the world we live in today though? Previously we were unable to instantly share information so freely and collaborate with people around the world with so little effort. I'm not saying it shouldn't take time to develop these things, but surely the 30-40 year timeline is significantly reduced due to information sharing today?

I'd question the 30-40 years figure. I suspect "it depends".

Check out the book "Skunk Works" sometime and marvel at what they managed to do on the frontiers with such small numbers of people and crappy computers (with relatively small budgets and tight deadlines to boot).

Peter Thiel riffs on this idea a lot. Despite our incredible advances in computing and networks, it seems like progress in everything else has slowed down. (Randomly found video with his basic stack of points: http://bigthink.com/embeds/video_idea/48434?width=512&height...)

Another example, consider how long it takes to build any skyscraper in the US. This isn't even new tech, it's well understood, but it still takes a long time from planning to legal stuff to the actual construction. And yet there's a guy in China who builds other kinds of skyscrapers at a rate of two floors per day. Slowness is not a fundamental thing.

Re: UK researchers create graphene-based sieve that can remove salt from seawater

#34
post #6
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that reverse osmosis desalination through membranes already exists as the article notes. (Not sure what the current state of the art is as I haven't worked in this area for a long time.) The question in whether this has advantages to the desalination systems used today.

Generally speaking, the Aussies and Israelis have some of the top of the line Reverse Osmosis Purification Tech. I saw a ROPU (reverse osmosis purification unit) truck from the Army Corps of engineers when I was active duty US Army and that thing was unreal. You could ingest raw sewage into that thing and out would come drinkable, albeit not wonderful tasting, clean drinking water.

That only works when you have the luxury of burning massive quantities of oil on the taxpayers' dime.

Re: UK researchers create graphene-based sieve that can remove salt from seawater

#35

The layering approach has much potential. In this case, graphene oxide layered with epoxy resin stabilizes the membrane and lets them control pore size. The next step, problems with contaminants (seawater) fouling the membrane, might be mitigated with more layers? Say a Teflon layer to aid in cleaning. Or an ionized layer to repel many particulates. I wish they'd said more about how they control pore size. How does t…

Have you read the paper? It's on arxiv: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1701.05519.pdf

Re: UK researchers create graphene-based sieve that can remove salt from seawater

#36
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RO membranes are notoriously finicky and non-robust. They require a lot of maintenance and can be ruined by common chemicals like chlorine. A more robust desalination membrane would be a very good thing.

When I was involved in RO in the early eighties, that was exactly the issue. In the context of offshore drilling rigs, we just couldn't get the adherence to protocol around flushing and filtering that the units needed to work over a reasonable lifetime. We eventually gave up and went with an Alfa-Laval heat exchanger based approach.

Why wasn't the flushing automated?

edit: I have worked on many RO systems and we always did auto flushing and I am not sure I ever saw anything other than that. It was pharma though.

Re: UK researchers create graphene-based sieve that can remove salt from seawater

#37
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was involved in RO in the early eighties, that was exactly the issue. In the context of offshore drilling rigs, we just couldn't get the adherence to protocol around flushing and filtering that the units needed to work over a reasonable lifetime. We eventually gave up and went with an Alfa-Laval heat exchanger based approach.

Why wasn't the flushing automated? edit: I have worked on many RO systems and we always did auto flushing and I am not sure I ever saw anything other than that. It was pharma though.

Likely the issue is, with a large RO plant you hire people for the specific domain knowledge and develop a work culture around it. For a place like an oil rig none of this specific domain knowledge is central to the work at hand. So the technology isn't reliable in that context.

Re: UK researchers create graphene-based sieve that can remove salt from seawater

#38
post #5

I swear I've heard about this before... is this one of those stories that emerges about a technology that never seems to enter the market? That "super slick" coating for condiment container interiors is another that springs to mind.

Desalinization is already with about a factor of 2 or 3 of the thermodynamic optimum, so improvements can't be revolutionary. Desalinization mostly needs cheap clean energy.

Also, waste is a major problem, environmentally.

Re: UK researchers create graphene-based sieve that can remove salt from seawater

#39

The layering approach has much potential. In this case, graphene oxide layered with epoxy resin stabilizes the membrane and lets them control pore size. The next step, problems with contaminants (seawater) fouling the membrane, might be mitigated with more layers? Say a Teflon layer to aid in cleaning. Or an ionized layer to repel many particulates. I wish they'd said more about how they control pore size. How does t…

The paper is quite short and very readable (especially if you are just skimming and can skim over some of the details/jargon) but here [0] is a diagram (from the paper) that perhaps will help you understand what is going on.

[0] http://imgur.com/a/LNWUz

[edit]

To summarise, they prepared graphene oxide laminates using vacuum filtration, and then stored them at different relative humidities by changing the salt concentration of the storage liquid. The different relative humidities cause different layer spacing, which they measure with X-ray diffraction, and choose whichever layer spacing they want before adding the epoxy.

The relevant quote from the paper:

Thick (≈100 µm) GO laminates were prepared by vacuum filtration of aqueous GO solutions, as reported previously. The laminates were cut into rectangular strips (4 mm × 10 mm) and stored for one to two weeks at different relative humidities (RH), achieved using saturated salt solutions. The resulting interlayer spacing was measured by X-ray diffraction as shown in Fig. 1e and varied from ≈ 6.4 to 9.8 Å with RH changing from zero to 100%. GO laminates soaked in liquid water showed d ≈ 13.7 ± 0.3 Å. All these values agree with previous reports, where the changes in d were attributed to successive incorporation of water molecules into various sites between GO sheets. Individual GO strips with desirable d were then encapsulated and stacked together using Stycast epoxy as shown in Figs. 1b,c to increase the available cross-section for filtration to 1 mm (see Methods and supplementary Fig. S1). The stacked GO laminates, now embedded in the epoxy (Fig. 1c), are referred to as physically confined GO (PCGO) membranes because the epoxy mechanically restricts the laminate’s swelling upon exposure to RH or liquid water (Methods). The stacks were glued into a slot made in either metal or plastic plate (Fig. 1b). Two sides of these stacked PCGO membranes were then trimmed off to make sure that all the nanochannels are open (Fig. 1d) before carrying out permeation experiments, in which ions and water molecules permeates along the lamination direction as shown in Fig. 1a.

Re: UK researchers create graphene-based sieve that can remove salt from seawater

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Desalinization is already with about a factor of 2 or 3 of the thermodynamic optimum, so improvements can't be revolutionary. Desalinization mostly needs cheap clean energy.

Also, waste is a major problem, environmentally.

What is the best practice for dealing with the brine? Reinjection in to a current? Diffusion over a long pipe? Evaporation in on-shore ponds?
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