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Why Were Economists as a Group as Useless Over 2010-2014 as Over 1929-1935?

bradford-delong.com

61–70 of 116 posts

Re: Why Were Economists as a Group as Useless Over 2010-2014 as Over 1929-1935?

#61

If economists did come to a broad consensus, many politicians would still ignore that consensus if it didn't happen to fit their worldview or the interests of their major donors. See: climate science.

One could scarcely call the field of Economics a science though.

Since politicians don't observe the consensus in a more rigorous science (climate), there's even less reason to think they'll observe it in economics.

Re: Why Were Economists as a Group as Useless Over 2010-2014 as Over 1929-1935?

#62
post #28
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what he's suggesting is that paying down debt through austerity can be more costly than growth, since austerity hurts growth. The trick is, where does growth come from?

The mistake there is thinking printing money brings you growth. Where has this worked?

The idea is that there are certain investments that give good returns. Governments can currently borrow at rates pretty close to 0%–even negative rates have popped up here and there. And you would actually have to subtract inflation from that as well.

So if some investment, say a new airport or funding for the National Science Foundation increases future growth even just slightly, it's perfectly fine to finance it with debt.

Re: Why Were Economists as a Group as Useless Over 2010-2014 as Over 1929-1935?

#63
post #53
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vote for better politicians.

Step 1 is to get better politicians to run. Only then can you vote for them.

If in the first election there's no-one worth voting for, stand at the next election.

Re: Why Were Economists as a Group as Useless Over 2010-2014 as Over 1929-1935?

#64

Two things in our universe that are impossible: Modeling chaos and knowing the future. Economists model chaos and use that model to predict the future.

The weather forecast is pretty close–it's where chaos theory originated after all, and it's got "forecast" in its name.

And forecasts in that realm have improved tremendously over the last years.

Re: Why Were Economists as a Group as Useless Over 2010-2014 as Over 1929-1935?

#65
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Gosh, that is an extremely salient and DEEPLY DEPRESSING point. I've been drawn to question what to do about that quite often, but I havent happened across an acceptable answer as yet.

My hope would be that the problem isn't "major donors" but rather uneducated and misrepresented citizens. The question about donors or deep states or any other conspiracy type scheme is both how they might affect the purpose of the education system and the integrity of the democratic machinery. These should be questioned, but fixing them might be more achievable than eliminating "major donors" which is certainly tied…

Major donors have better access to the media than me. I can't educate them if the major donors are spinning opinions. My HN post will reach a negligible proportion of the voters; their prime time ad will reach a huge number.

Re: Why Were Economists as a Group as Useless Over 2010-2014 as Over 1929-1935?

#66
post #56

It seems that people are too hurried to read the article and are commenting the title and economics on general level. Basic macroeconomics did fine. Austerity side Alesina/Ardagna/Reinhart/Rogoff camp was utterly wrong. Spreadsheet errors in their studies that became basis for political action etc. Even after the austerity approach has been shown to be baseless in academia it continues to live in politics. Politician…

> Even after the austerity approach has been shown to be baseless in academia it continues to live in politics. Politicians nearly no ability to evaluate what they hear or read.

Unfortunately, politicians and the general public often inject philosophy and morality into their view of finances and Economics. Beyond austerity, another example is drug testing and work requirements for entitlements. This is particularly problematic if automation permanently reduces the demand for actual human labour.

Re: Why Were Economists as a Group as Useless Over 2010-2014 as Over 1929-1935?

#67
post #56

It seems that people are too hurried to read the article and are commenting the title and economics on general level. Basic macroeconomics did fine. Austerity side Alesina/Ardagna/Reinhart/Rogoff camp was utterly wrong. Spreadsheet errors in their studies that became basis for political action etc. Even after the austerity approach has been shown to be baseless in academia it continues to live in politics. Politician…

The problem is that politicians don't give a solitary shit about economics except when it gives them cover for doing what they wanted to do anyway. I hope no one genuinely believe that politicians wanted to enact austerity measures or shrink government because of economics. They do it because huge corporations and billionaires want less taxes and lower regulation so they can accumulate more wealth personally. Whether the economy as a whole or even a a majority of the people benefits is irrelevant to them. See also climate change.

Re: Why Were Economists as a Group as Useless Over 2010-2014 as Over 1929-1935?

#68
post #56

It seems that people are too hurried to read the article and are commenting the title and economics on general level. Basic macroeconomics did fine. Austerity side Alesina/Ardagna/Reinhart/Rogoff camp was utterly wrong. Spreadsheet errors in their studies that became basis for political action etc. Even after the austerity approach has been shown to be baseless in academia it continues to live in politics. Politician…

[deleted]

Re: Why Were Economists as a Group as Useless Over 2010-2014 as Over 1929-1935?

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could scarcely call the field of Economics a science though.

Since politicians don't observe the consensus in a more rigorous science (climate), there's even less reason to think they'll observe it in economics.

My point exactly. Although I think UBI is a highly imperfect solution to the threat automation poses towards the livelihoods of those replaced, there isn't anything better on the table. I fear that our government won't take this seriously and reject UBI simply on moral grounds even if all the research and evidence pointed towards it being the best policy option.

Re: Why Were Economists as a Group as Useless Over 2010-2014 as Over 1929-1935?

#70

Because economics has always been utterly useless in any practical sense. It makes no testable predictions and is no more scientific than any theology. Only because it clothes its dogmas in symbolic notation is it accorded even the slightest bit of respect. The sooner we jettison it from our epistenic frames, the more quickly we will return to something that at least partially resembles sanity.

> It makes no testable predictions

That's not true. There are, for example, GDP growth forecasts published by almost all central banks and many other institutions. They are pretty wrong, most of the time. But they are made, and falsifying them has been pretty easy in the past.

There are many more theories in economics that are, in principle, testable and falsifiable. The problem is that it's difficult to run controlled "experiments" on interventions. You never have a control group in the strict sense, and everything is connected to everything else.

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