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Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

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Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#21

Post by soperj »

Karunamon wrote: post #18

Don't get me wrong, warts regarding high DPIs have existed for far too long and definitely need some love, but I'm a bit sadder the few complaints I see about design direction were not taken on board. Running what appears to be a touch UI (definition: very few buttons, those that exist are large, lots of dead space, information density very low) with a mouse feels shockingly unproductive, and at least personally, con…

I use it regularily. Never even thought about it, because i just hit the super key and start typing. Finds what I want to launch every time.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#22

Post by soperj »

badminton1 wrote: post #17

The GNOME Tweak tool can help configuring GNOME for HiDPI settings through scaling factors. Also changing fonts, themes and such. The default GNOME themes are functional but I never enjoyed them much. Sam Hewitt made an excellent theme for GNOME, including a full icon and cursor set. It really does improve the look and feel of GNOME. https://snwh.org/paper

I quite like that one. Thanks for sharing :)

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#23

Post by Adaptive »

lima wrote: post #6

I'm using a 4k screen and a HiDPI thinkpad (T460p) for my workstation and it works amazingly well even today. Was a wild ride since Skylake + 4k + docking station became stable only recently with Linux 4.9, but scaling always worked. Here's what it takes: Xft DPI and hinting settings (font rendering): # .Xresources Xft.dpi: 144 Xft.hinting: 1 Xft.hintstyle: hintslight Xft.antialias: 1 Xcursor.size: 48 Xcursor.theme:…

Very clever. I hadn't considered doing it like this. The best tip I've come across on HN in forever.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#24

Post by Karunamon »

soperj wrote: post #21
Karunamon wrote: post #18

Don't get me wrong, warts regarding high DPIs have existed for far too long and definitely need some love, but I'm a bit sadder the few complaints I see about design direction were not taken on board. Running what appears to be a touch UI (definition: very few buttons, those that exist are large, lots of dead space, information density very low) with a mouse feels shockingly unproductive, and at least personally, con…

I use it regularily. Never even thought about it, because i just hit the super key and start typing. Finds what I want to launch every time.

Except for the fact that it monopolizes the whole screen? Windows 8's start screen was panned for the same reason; there's no reason to send the user's state to the background for something that objectively does not require it.

An example of doing the same thing, the Right Way, would be Quicksilver or Spotlight on MacOS.

What's the use case for the launcher (activities menu) on G3? If you've invoked it, either by throwing your mouse to the corner or by hitting the super key, you either want to:

1. Start something

2. Close something

3. Switch to something (that being an open app or a virtual desktop).

Zero of these cases require, or even benefit from backgrounding all open windows. Compare and contrast with the Win7-Era start menu and taskbar, or Ubuntu Unity's sidebar, or MacOS's Dock.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#25

Post by DominoTree »

Karunamon wrote: post #18

Don't get me wrong, warts regarding high DPIs have existed for far too long and definitely need some love, but I'm a bit sadder the few complaints I see about design direction were not taken on board. Running what appears to be a touch UI (definition: very few buttons, those that exist are large, lots of dead space, information density very low) with a mouse feels shockingly unproductive, and at least personally, con…

Mice in general are shockingly unproductive as compared to keyboards - using Gnome in a primarily keyboard-driven manner is where it really shines.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#26

Post by SwellJoe »

I've found Fedora HiDPI support tolerable, but still weaker than Windows. As the article notes, fractional scale isn't do-able.. I have a 15" 4k laptop...2x isn't quite right, as I can't quite fit a comfortably sized browser window alongside a comfortably wide terminal window. My ideal development environment has a browser and a term splitting the screen not quite in half (browser slightly bigger).

The tiling features are weaker in Gnome than in Windows, now, as well (which is kinda sad, since tiling window managers originated on Linux/UNIX/BSD systems). I can drag to the side for each of my windows, and then drag the center bar to get just the right balance between browser size and terminal size. On Linux, I've got some kind of tiling plugin, but it requires me to specify window size by selecting from a 4x4 grid. So, more cumbersome to get my screen setup, and with less control; it's the perfect storm of poor UI: Harder to use while doing less.

I'm still more productive in Linux than in Windows. Windows is a mess for developing across many languages...I've literally got five different Perl installations (that I know about), only one was intentionally installed, and they all fight with each other, and I never can get the path right to make all of my stuff Just Work. At least three different Pythons (I intentionally installed a Python 2.7 and a Python 3.x, but a third came along with some other package). The Python's are waging a turf war, too, and things never seem to work right. Also, multiple versions of gcc and development environment; only one actually works (probably due to paths, again). At least I only have one Ruby interpreter installed on the system (that I know of).

But, at least the graphics drivers are solid, and the quality of the general Windows user experience has increased dramatically since I last used it for any work.

Nonentheless, I love Fedora. It's my favorite desktop OS, and has been for many years. I've tried Ubuntu, but find I don't really agree with a lot of their choices. They seem to leap before thinking things through, sometimes, in an effort to be on the cutting edge. And, a lot of their "invented here" stuff is often inferior to the stuff the rest of the community has been working on.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#27

Post by Karunamon »

DominoTree wrote: post #25
Karunamon wrote: post #18

Don't get me wrong, warts regarding high DPIs have existed for far too long and definitely need some love, but I'm a bit sadder the few complaints I see about design direction were not taken on board. Running what appears to be a touch UI (definition: very few buttons, those that exist are large, lots of dead space, information density very low) with a mouse feels shockingly unproductive, and at least personally, con…

Mice in general are shockingly unproductive as compared to keyboards - using Gnome in a primarily keyboard-driven manner is where it really shines.

That just surfaces the complaints of poor use of screen real-estate. If I'm using the keyboard to launch things, that indicates:

1. That I'm probably at least a proficient user (newbies tend to not keyboard)

2. That I'm probably on a non-mobile device with a large display.

If I'm not using the keyboard, but rather using the mouse, that indicates:

* I am absolutely not on a mobile device.

Absolutely none of these indications point towards mobile-ification of the UI. The only way G3's UI direction makes any sense is assuming touch input.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#28

Post by lima »

SwellJoe wrote: post #26

I've found Fedora HiDPI support tolerable, but still weaker than Windows. As the article notes, fractional scale isn't do-able.. I have a 15" 4k laptop...2x isn't quite right, as I can't quite fit a comfortably sized browser window alongside a comfortably wide terminal window. My ideal development environment has a browser and a term splitting the screen not quite in half (browser slightly bigger). The tiling feature…

Please try the text-scaling-factor trick I detailed above and report back. I'm curious.

Try i3 as tiling WM. It might look intimidating at first, but it really improves productivity (and I say that as someone who refused to use one for far too long).

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#29

Post by SwellJoe »

lima wrote: post #28
SwellJoe wrote: post #26

I've found Fedora HiDPI support tolerable, but still weaker than Windows. As the article notes, fractional scale isn't do-able.. I have a 15" 4k laptop...2x isn't quite right, as I can't quite fit a comfortably sized browser window alongside a comfortably wide terminal window. My ideal development environment has a browser and a term splitting the screen not quite in half (browser slightly bigger). The tiling feature…

Please try the text-scaling-factor trick I detailed above and report back. I'm curious. Try i3 as tiling WM. It might look intimidating at first, but it really improves productivity (and I say that as someone who refused to use one for far too long).

I've used i3 and xmonad in the past when I was having RSI issues, but found they impeded my productivity on some fronts, so when my RSI faded and I was able to mouse/touchpad again, I switched back to default Gnome (this was also around the time Gnome 3 came along, and I quite like Gnome 3 in most regards). I'm not really intimidated by tiling window managers, I just prefer a hybrid approach. There's a lot to like about the default Gnome experience.

But, it may be worth another try. My way of interacting with my OS has changed a lot over the years; I really prefer to just install the distro and start using it. Very little customization, so that when I move to a different machine it's not a big bunch of customizations to bring over (that may or may not work on the next version of the distro, or whatever). But, not being able to split up my screen in exactly the way I want is definitely hindering my productivity, so maybe another round with tiling window managers is the way forward.

Re: Fedora dev: “HN feedback on what they want from their Desktop – We got it”

#30

Post by soperj »

Karunamon wrote: post #24
soperj wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use it regularily. Never even thought about it, because i just hit the super key and start typing. Finds what I want to launch every time.

Except for the fact that it monopolizes the whole screen? Windows 8's start screen was panned for the same reason; there's no reason to send the user's state to the background for something that objectively does not require it. An example of doing the same thing, the Right Way, would be Quicksilver or Spotlight on MacOS. What's the use case for the launcher (activities menu) on G3? If you've invoked it, either by thr…

What's the advantage of just using a little bar on the screen to search for what you want to launch, or close, or switch to? Because when I'm on windows 7 and looking for what I want to switch to on the start bar, i'm definitely not using the rest of the screen for anything. I'm looking for the right little icon to click.

Tell me why it's the "Right Way".

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