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Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

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Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#381

Post by elastic_church »

dan1234 wrote: post #2

Interesting, but market cap isn’t everything - FTA: "While Tesla’s market capitalization has swelled in size, Ford still overshadows the Palo Alto, California-based company in most other financial metrics. Over the last five years, Ford has posted net income totaling $26 billion, while Tesla has lost $2.3 billion. Last year, Ford had annual revenue of $151.8 billion compared with Tesla’s $7 billion. And when it comes…

Tesla probably has a premium partly because of the exclusiveness of ownership and the features that come with those vehicles

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#382

Post by sxates »

bischofs wrote: post #358
sxates wrote: post #140

I think these comparison's to other car companies really miss the mark. Those who are long on TSLA (myself included) aren't looking at them as a car company. Tesla is cracking open new markets in the following areas: - Electric Cars (most visible. Also don't undervalue their unique direct sales channel, which is a huge competitive advantage) - Batteries/Energy Storage (not just cars - utility scale energy storage, wi…

Yeah I think car companies should focus less on making cars... - Your first point is cars - there are a ton of evs for sale from many large companies and direct sale doesn't seem to sell more cars than indirect. - Tesla is partnering with battery companies just as GM does on the bolt and volt. Nothing special here as their battery business is pretty minuscule. - Again a niche market that compares to GMs after market…

1. Tesla's EVs are outselling everyone else combined, even with an average sale price that's double everyone else.

2. Tesla is partnered with Panasonic, but they're practically married with communal property. They haven't outsourced this, they've put billions into building a gigafactory. What part of "doubling global output of lithium batteries" is minuscule to you?

3. In 20 years, probably half the world's electricity will come from Solar PV. Was coal a niche market? Because this will be bigger.

4. Most other car makers are licensing systems from others, not building their own, and they don't have the self-driving hardware in any cars yet. Tesla has 10's of thousands of cars on the road right now (25k just in Q1) with their second generation system, while GM and Chrysler are still fiddling with prototypes.

If you don't see how all these things connect, then I understand your view. But when you recognize how they're all interconnected it makes complete sense to me to be building all of them at once, otherwise a failure in one dooms them all.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#383

Post by [deleted] »

criley2 wrote: post #377
Judgmentality wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people just like owning cars. I live in San Francisco and don't currently own a car, but I want one. Perfect example where Uber fails - I can't take my dog anywhere. Different people have different values. Also I'm quite young, so I don't think age is a strict delineation.

"Some people just like owning cars." Yes I did point out that most Americans and many people are conditioned from birth to value car ownership, even when it's a poor financial decision. "Perfect example where Uber fails - I can't take my dog anywhere As I told the other guy: Stop predicting failure based on problems, put on your creator and builder hat, and solve the problem. Why not have pet friendly vehicles availa…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#384

Post by [deleted] »

criley2 wrote: post #377
Judgmentality wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people just like owning cars. I live in San Francisco and don't currently own a car, but I want one. Perfect example where Uber fails - I can't take my dog anywhere. Different people have different values. Also I'm quite young, so I don't think age is a strict delineation.

"Some people just like owning cars." Yes I did point out that most Americans and many people are conditioned from birth to value car ownership, even when it's a poor financial decision. "Perfect example where Uber fails - I can't take my dog anywhere As I told the other guy: Stop predicting failure based on problems, put on your creator and builder hat, and solve the problem. Why not have pet friendly vehicles availa…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#385

Post by jnicholasp »

bigtimeidiot wrote: post #338
jnicholasp wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford doesn't have much room to grow because they are a mature company in a mature field. Tesla is creating new fields. Ford doesn't know how to create new fields, therefore they're stuck making small improvements to existing things, and, once someone like Tesla makes it very clear that a new field exists and is viable, Ford will reluctantly follow the market trend. Ford does normal science [0], Tesla does revolutiona…

> Ford does normal science [0], Tesla does revolutionary science [1]. Peak delusion.

I don't know what this is meant to mean.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#386

Post by erikpukinskis »

jhpankow wrote: post #326
erikpukinskis wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dealerships won't sell it. Any marketing they do for it will hurt their other brands. Any marketing they do for their other brands will hurt it. It's like McDonalds selling an organic, grass fed burger. If they talk about the quality of the beef, they're basically saying the Big Mac is low quality beef.

Interesting they haven't done a sub-brand like a Saturn or Scion.

The sub-brand still messes with their marketing. Why do you think there is so much anti-Tesla astroturfing? There's no point in starting a sub-brand if you're just going to have to astroturf it.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#387

Post by erikpukinskis »

bigtimeidiot wrote: post #334
erikpukinskis wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of people who buy raptors and gt350s are a tiny fraction of the market compared to the people who just want to get to work. Tesla isn't interested in car enthusiasts, they want to be the default answer to the question "How do I get from point A to point B for $1?"

> people who just want to get to work. People who "just want to get to work" aren't buying cars that start at $35,000, either.

No, of course not. But They'll pay $0.10/mile for Tesla mobility services.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#388

Post by emodendroket »

tbabb wrote: post #369
username223 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The automobile industry will contract as we move from individual ownership to mobility. What does this even mean? People like to leave stuff in their cars (e.g. mug, gym bag). They like them to be at their preferred level of cleanliness or disorder. Some even use them as a means of personal expression. If "mobility" were so desirable, ZipCar would have taken off 10 years ago. The "mobility" market will be about the…

> The "mobility" market will be about the size of the taxi, bus, and train market. - A personal, individual vehicle which comes to pick you up where you are and take you to exactly where you want to go is a much MUCH higher value proposition than public transit. - Add self-driving to the mix, and the cost of that service will plummet. - When the car providing that service can drive itself, then there is little to no…

> Cost of ownership is especially high in cities (parking), and the market for ride sharing is highest. So probably many fewer city dwellers will own cars.

If it's really self-driving it can go park wherever. Not very good for the environment, perhaps, but it completely solves that problem.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#389

Post by emodendroket »

criley2 wrote: post #377
Judgmentality wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people just like owning cars. I live in San Francisco and don't currently own a car, but I want one. Perfect example where Uber fails - I can't take my dog anywhere. Different people have different values. Also I'm quite young, so I don't think age is a strict delineation.

"Some people just like owning cars." Yes I did point out that most Americans and many people are conditioned from birth to value car ownership, even when it's a poor financial decision. "Perfect example where Uber fails - I can't take my dog anywhere As I told the other guy: Stop predicting failure based on problems, put on your creator and builder hat, and solve the problem. Why not have pet friendly vehicles availa…

If it's so easy to solve why don't you share the solution?

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#390

Post by jnicholasp »

bigtimeidiot wrote: post #320
jnicholasp wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being innovative at small details of existing concepts isn't likely to produce huge gains in stock value, as opposed to being innovative at entire categories of new industry- and infrastructure-disrupting products. Ford does the former, Tesla does the latter, and the market is valuing them accordingly. The market could be wrong, Tesla could fail to achieve their vision, Ford and other existing big companies could som…

> Tesla does the latter, and the market is valuing them accordingly. Suddenly we believe in a rational market when it comes to Tesla? Everytime I ask basic valuation questions in these threads, I get touchy-feely answers about "potential". And HackerNews is supposed to be a data/tech place. Imagine what average Joe thinks?

> The market could be wrong, Tesla could fail to achieve their vision, Ford and other existing big companies could somehow turn themselves into organizations that aggressively pursue ambitious new visions.. but the market is betting not. You're welcome to make an opposing bet.

I don't know about 'we', but I don't believe in an irrational market - the market may well be wrong, but it's not usually wrong for unreasonable reasons. And potential is all investors ever care about: they're looking to put their money where it has the most potential to turn into more money. Predicting the future is necessarily uncertain and involves ambiguous judgment; you can call that touchy-feely if you want to be dismissive, but there is no such thing as data on things that haven't happened yet.

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