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Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

bloomberg.com

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Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#281

Post by erikpukinskis »

leggomylibro wrote: post #128
macspoofing wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tesla is potentially a trillion dollar company... Huh?

I think that line of thought assumes that they pivot from electric cars to batteries, and from batteries to energy in general. Imagine huge, modular atmospheric/solar/geothermal/battery/molten salt combination generator/energy storage plants dotting the globe. But I mean, couldn't GE do that too? Or Samsung/Murata/Vishay/Maxwell/Panasonic/etc.? It kind of seems like the stocks are trading largely on the strength of M…

> But I mean, couldn't GE do that too? Or Samsung/Murata/Vishay/Maxwell/Panasonic/etc.?

Sure. So could Martha Stewart, or Jeff Bezos.

That hard part is actually doing it and doing it well. Is GE better positioned to do it than Tesla? Not really. It's a complex problem involving advanced software, engineering, branding, customer service, talent retention, supply chain, and myriad other challenges. Tesla is better at some of these things, worse at others. But they're going for it. GE, GM, et al don't appear to be moving aggressively towards these goals at all.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#282

Post by dabeeeenster »

hammock wrote: post #243
dabeeeenster wrote: post #208

Bill Ford gave a talk at SXSW, and I asked him the question "Why hasn't Ford built the gigafactory". He gave IMHO a really weak answer about how they weren't sure the economics of it worked out. Big car OEMs have so much invested in terms of R&D, brand and emotionally in the combustion engine that I think most are just not going to be able to make the jump to EVs. Nissan and BMW are trying, but they are still making…

He's right, the economics don't work out for a Ford. They only work out for a smaller, separately owned disruptor. Inevitable truth and pattern seen across all mature industries

That makes no sense to me - can you explain further?

Why don't Ford produce a 60KWH car as cheaply as they can?

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#283

Post by erikpukinskis »

Alupis wrote: post #131
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If batteries reduce the demand for oil, oil's value will start to transfer to batteries.

> If batteries reduce the demand for oil That's a big IF. Also, it ignores the fact that every car manufacturer already has a plethora of fully electric, or hybrid models available (and they are, on average, far cheaper than the cheapest base model Tesla can offer), and the markets still don't buy them. This also ignores the fact that many companies make great batteries, and Tesla is only recently sitting down to tha…

Put a probability on the IF and multiply it by the revenue of the oil companies and you've got a valuation for Tesla.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#284

Post by emodendroket »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #275
iamacynic wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ford doesn't have any good ideas for the future, they are too busy with the here and now according to who? your average HN reader who basically hates cars? yeah, sure. the guy who hates cars is bearish on ford, shocking. what about all the people buying raptors and gt350s and fgts and fists and fosts, hand over fist? do you even know what i'm talking about? do these insanely popular cars even register on your radar…

The kind of people who buy raptors and gt350s are a tiny fraction of the market compared to the people who just want to get to work. Tesla isn't interested in car enthusiasts, they want to be the default answer to the question "How do I get from point A to point B for $1?"

The most popular cars are crossovers and SUVs, a segment Tesla hasn't shown any interest in so far.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#285

Post by ctdonath »

billhathaway wrote: post #107
ctdonath wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to clarify the non-sequitur there. Yes, Ford doesn't have it's own network of "chargers" (300+ mile recharge in 5 minutes or less), but you know there's a solid network available; in the few places where chargers are lacking, you can easily take extra power units with you (disposably cheap at that). That said, Tesla is pursuing the angle of enabling customers to install their own charging station requiri…

Can you expand on what you mean by "you can easily take extra power units with you (disposably cheap at that)." ?

Fill a $10 gas can with gasoline, throw it in the back of the pickup.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#286

Post by emodendroket »

imgabe wrote: post #248
dkrich wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this based on? Ford has had record profits over the past few years and has continually improved their vehicles and manufacturing processes, including remaking two assembly plants to make aluminum body F 150s. They also invested a billion dollars in Arvo AI and are making aggressive moves into self driving technology.

Pretty much everyone who wants a Ford has one, or could buy one. There's not a lot of growth left for Ford. Their only hope is to steal a few customers from the other automakers, but those other automakers will steal a few back. It's unlikely that large numbers of people who don't currently own a Ford are going to buy one any time soon. Tesla on the other hand, has millions of potential customers who would and will b…

Huh? Do you own a car?

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#287

Post by prklmn »

snambi wrote: post #261
dkrich wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this based on? Ford has had record profits over the past few years and has continually improved their vehicles and manufacturing processes, including remaking two assembly plants to make aluminum body F 150s. They also invested a billion dollars in Arvo AI and are making aggressive moves into self driving technology.

Does anyone pre-order a F150?

Does it matter? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_automobil... Take a look at the USA on this chart.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#288

Post by emodendroket »

snambi wrote: post #261
dkrich wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this based on? Ford has had record profits over the past few years and has continually improved their vehicles and manufacturing processes, including remaking two assembly plants to make aluminum body F 150s. They also invested a billion dollars in Arvo AI and are making aggressive moves into self driving technology.

Does anyone pre-order a F150?

There's no need to because there are plenty. People did preorder the Focus RS.

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#289

Post by tylerappeared »

calpaterson wrote: post #254
dan1234 wrote: post #2

Interesting, but market cap isn’t everything - FTA: "While Tesla’s market capitalization has swelled in size, Ford still overshadows the Palo Alto, California-based company in most other financial metrics. Over the last five years, Ford has posted net income totaling $26 billion, while Tesla has lost $2.3 billion. Last year, Ford had annual revenue of $151.8 billion compared with Tesla’s $7 billion. And when it comes…

No, market cap is not everything. Specifically it is not enterprise value, which is the correct measure of the value of a business. Market cap is the value of the equity. Enterprise value is the value of the business (ie including debt). Tesla's EV is $52bn. Ford's EV is $150bn.

How is EV calculated?

Re: Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value

#290

Post by cr0sh »

sqeaky wrote: post #141
dkrich wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this based on? Ford has had record profits over the past few years and has continually improved their vehicles and manufacturing processes, including remaking two assembly plants to make aluminum body F 150s. They also invested a billion dollars in Arvo AI and are making aggressive moves into self driving technology.

An aluminum body is exactly the kind of iteration that was being talked about. It is neat, but its not and all new drive train on a totally different tech. Aluminium is a pretty well understood material, while self driving cars are virgin territory. Tesla is making larger swings and potentially accepting larger risk. Ford is... iterating.

I wonder if Tesla is contemplating building and selling a half-ton pickup truck to compete against Ford's F-150 (and others)?

That's what I'm kinda waiting for - I don't want a car; I like having a pickup. Ideally, it would be 4WD (and my next pickup will be - right now my off-road vehicle is an Isuzu VehiCROSS that I'm pouring money into). I would love it if my next pickup truck was a self-driving, off-road, 4WD electric beast.

But I don't see that happening any time soon - at least not before I get to the point of replacing my current truck.

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