Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system • Hacker News Board

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#91

Post by joshuaduffy » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #80

JoshTriplett wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being that you can install or upgrade Windows on a system without buying a new laptop or requiring support from the vendor; the vendor doesn't lock down laptops to prevent upgrades and force people to buy a new device instead.

>The difference being that you can install or upgrade Windows on a system without buying a new laptop or requiring support from the vendor; the vendor doesn't lock down laptops to prevent upgrades and force people to buy a new device instead. As a poweruser, I have installed new versions of Windows AND new versions of Android. To the average user, neither is feasible. To a technical user, both are possible. I don't l…

There's a subset of handsets that have a locked bootloader, which means they cannot even flash the device themselves.

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#92

Post by E6300 » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

digi_owl wrote: post #79

pjmlp wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually only adventure games, and point and click ones did that. Think of games like Maniac Mansion or adventure writing software like PAWS.

Lost Vikings have been mentioned on HN a few times, and Blizzard used a VM for that game.

1993 is nowhere near close to the early days of microcomputers.

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#93

Post by yuhong » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #83

yuhong wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fun thing is that OS/2 could have put DR-DOS out of business if MS didn't turn OS/2 2.0 into an entire fiasco.

The way I remember it, I would need to buy an expensive IBM with PS2 architecture to be able to use OS/2 properly, instead of the 386 I got with Windows, so lets not forget that IBM didn't managed the whole situation properly.

That was always a myth, of course.

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#94

Post by najati83 » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

j_s wrote: post #88

najati83 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sending an MMS is very expensive and many people don't even bother to configure their mobiles to send them because they've never used them.

Interesting perspective. Where is this coming from, geographically? It doesn't match my experience here in North America.

Spain.

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#95

Post by technofiend » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 5:11 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #69

_wmd wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that our problem or Google's? You can point fingers at 50 different companies in the ecosystem, or you can collectively point the finger at the root cause. By the topic of this article, they're no longer the underdog when it comes to dictating terms to device vendors, they're the biggest shop in town and there's no reason the vulns-frozen-for-life-of-device model should continue to be adhered to.

If they cared one second about it, they would have changed the terms of access to the Google services. The sad part is that the 2016 security report just came out and they brag how the whole security improved, without mentioning the elephant in the room. Google IO is around the corner and I bet they will keep talking as if everyone could upgrade right away to Android O, with N now having barely 2%.

And that even google-sourced devices have a very short lifecycle for OS and security updates. Google seem to be running under the assumption any phone over 12 months old is reaching the end of its usable life.

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#96

Post by enzanki_ars » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 5:11 PM UTC

discreditable wrote: post #68

Someone1234 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad part is that these are issues with Android that Linux already solved. Google uses Linux within Android but instead of allowing the underlying parts to be updated via package management-like functionality, the kernel level stuff is only distributable as images in one "big bang" go. You could have a bug in a single binary at the kernel level, but instead of a tiny 1Kb diff patch you wait a year for a giant 1.2…

Part of the problem is that Linux has no driver API like Windows. The result is each vendor maintains their own fork of the Kernel with their crappy drivers shoehorned in. On the next Kernel version, they have to uplift all of their garbage to it.

To the best of my understanding, Linux has the ability to add and remove drivers to the system. Android should have a package manager for these drivers to allow for updates in the same manor.

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#97

Post by ocdtrekkie » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 5:11 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #80

JoshTriplett wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being that you can install or upgrade Windows on a system without buying a new laptop or requiring support from the vendor; the vendor doesn't lock down laptops to prevent upgrades and force people to buy a new device instead.

>The difference being that you can install or upgrade Windows on a system without buying a new laptop or requiring support from the vendor; the vendor doesn't lock down laptops to prevent upgrades and force people to buy a new device instead. As a poweruser, I have installed new versions of Windows AND new versions of Android. To the average user, neither is feasible. To a technical user, both are possible. I don't l…

I think there is a shocking difference here. Windows install is, for all compatible devices:

1. Insert install disc/USB. 2. Boot to install disc. 3. Spam the next button.

Installing new Android OS versions manually often involves custom third party unlock tools from sketchy download sites.

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#98

Post by shp0ngle » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 5:12 PM UTC

alnitak wrote: post #85

JoshTriplett wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being that you can install or upgrade Windows on a system without buying a new laptop or requiring support from the vendor; the vendor doesn't lock down laptops to prevent upgrades and force people to buy a new device instead.

Let me ask a (potentially) very stupid question here: What prevents doing the same on phones? What would make a phone hardware able to install anything that compiles to its CPU architecture the same way a PC can?

I don't really understand it either.

I get Windows security updates on every damn computer I buy. Yes, the computer is pre-loaded with bloat, but I still get updates like everyone else.

Meanwhile, on Android, I mostly get nothing. What is so fundamentally different between PC and phone? Why is it so hard on mobile phones?

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#99

Post by xorblurb » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 5:12 PM UTC

discreditable wrote: post #68

Someone1234 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad part is that these are issues with Android that Linux already solved. Google uses Linux within Android but instead of allowing the underlying parts to be updated via package management-like functionality, the kernel level stuff is only distributable as images in one "big bang" go. You could have a bug in a single binary at the kernel level, but instead of a tiny 1Kb diff patch you wait a year for a giant 1.2…

Part of the problem is that Linux has no driver API like Windows. The result is each vendor maintains their own fork of the Kernel with their crappy drivers shoehorned in. On the next Kernel version, they have to uplift all of their garbage to it.

The problem kind of exist but the comparison is mostly bullshit -- or at least was until recently. Windows regularly breaks driver compat, even more so on Windows phone.

Only with Windows 10 Mobile they engineered a strong way to upgrade the OS without needing vendor intervention too much (or at all?), it is a shame Windows Mobile market share as fallen so low and Windows Mobile is not even a priority of MS anymore :/

On Linux side, some (most?) phone vendors are most of the time not supposed to distribute the kernel and their binary-only driver the way they do it, because most of those distributions are likely GPL violations. The sad thing is some high profile organisations (Linux Fondation comes to mind) don't give a fuck about licence compliance, which is insane given the technical side NEEDS licence compliance in order for the end result to work well and not be dangerous for end-users for a large part of the ecosystem. (Worse, the Linux Fondation happily accept obvious GPL infringers at the highest levels.)

Anyway the kernel part is a small part in an Android distribution, and I'm not sure anything is available to handle the security update problem, or that somebody is even working on it... The technical update model MS has chosen is the way to go and Google is endangering us all by having such a huge market share and not wanting to take any responsibility that should come with it. (It's even worse given how Android has reached this market share levels, using practices that would make look past MS ones as respectful of competition!)

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#100

Post by drvdevd » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 5:12 PM UTC

alnitak wrote: post #85

JoshTriplett wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being that you can install or upgrade Windows on a system without buying a new laptop or requiring support from the vendor; the vendor doesn't lock down laptops to prevent upgrades and force people to buy a new device instead.

Let me ask a (potentially) very stupid question here: What prevents doing the same on phones? What would make a phone hardware able to install anything that compiles to its CPU architecture the same way a PC can?

The short answer is that phone hardware is all over the place .. x86/64 has actually made generic kernels (including Windows) possible by having a slew of very similar machines. You can't expect the same thing from ARM systems yet - each system has to be specially targeted.