Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

zdnet.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 93 posts

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#81

Post by alex_c »

dieterrams wrote: post #80
alex_c wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't see it. If I sat down today to make an app like this, and read the sentence you quoted, it wouldn't even cross my mind that I might get in trouble. What is the existing metaphor for "picture frame that shows the time, weather, and some other useful info"? For that matter, where does it say anything about desktops? It's about as useful as a Rorschach test, or staring at the clouds to understand the shape…

> What is the existing metaphor for "picture frame that shows the time, weather, and some other useful info"? A desktop with a customizable background and widgets. Seriously, if you take a screenshot of that app and go around showing it to your friends, do you think their first impression is going to be, oh, it's a picture frame with widgets? > For that matter, where does it say anything about desktops? The "desktop"…

>Seriously, if you take a screenshot of that app and go around showing it to your friends, do you think their first impression is going to be, oh, it's a picture frame with widgets?

Actually, yes, especially if they're less tech-savvy (part of the assumption underlying this whole discussion is that Apple is trying to protect users from getting confused). It doesn't look like you can interact with it much - you certainly can't put icons on it and use it to launch programs, or have it run in the background and become visible when you close everything else. But that's not even really my point.

>The "desktop" is a metaphor. You don't have an actual, literal desktop on your computer.

Thanks, I managed to get that far on my own. My point is that I still don't see anywhere in the agreements that you can't make an app that looks, if you squint hard enough, like a desktop.

This isn't really going anywhere, and I don't want to spam this thread more than I already have. If you want to continue this discussion, there's some contact info in my profile.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#82

Post by jrockway »

elblanco wrote: post #77
jrockway wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? You can just sell your app on your webpage. The market is not that compelling; it's hard to search and it's hard to read real reviews on your phone, so most people that actually need some software are just going to Google for what they need. The market mostly benefits developers of paid fart apps.

I usually search the web for Android apps anyways. It's just faster than hunting through a store.

Exactly. Apple's App Store is great for impulse buys, control, and marketing. But as a user, none of that is good for you.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#83

Post by dieterrams »

alex_c wrote: post #81
dieterrams wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the existing metaphor for "picture frame that shows the time, weather, and some other useful info"? A desktop with a customizable background and widgets. Seriously, if you take a screenshot of that app and go around showing it to your friends, do you think their first impression is going to be, oh, it's a picture frame with widgets? > For that matter, where does it say anything about desktops? The "desktop"…

>Seriously, if you take a screenshot of that app and go around showing it to your friends, do you think their first impression is going to be, oh, it's a picture frame with widgets? Actually, yes, especially if they're less tech-savvy (part of the assumption underlying this whole discussion is that Apple is trying to protect users from getting confused). It doesn't look like you can interact with it much - you certai…

I don't know that this discussion has anywhere left to go, but I thought I quoted the relevant part in the HIG already. The desktop is a metaphor. HIG says don't redefine iPhone OS metaphors. The picture frame app invokes the desktop metaphor. The iPhone OS already has a desktop metaphor, in the form of Springboard. Therefore, picture frame app is redefining an iPhone OS metaphor, and the app gets rejected. This is a reasonable application of the rules. You could certainly quibble with it. But reasonable does not imply optimal, or that the rules couldn't stand revision.

Also, this is the sort of issue we can obstinately disagree over without consulting data, but I really doubt that even non-tech savvy users are going to identify a screenshot of this app as a picture frame. I've never seen a picture frame with a bunch of widgets on it, at least until I saw this app. I'd consider it far more likely that non-tech savvy users have seen a computer desktop with widgets on it and a picture for a background.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#84

Post by hboon »

pwhelan wrote: post #70
hboon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just a cost of business. Minute in the grand scheme of things. Unless you are arguing about freedom to put apps on your own device. That's a different discussion

However, for someone like me who is starting to develop for a possible startup idea -- I'm starting with Android. If this doesn't pan out, then other dev will be on Android. I'll do iPhone next then others if it pans out, but if it doesn't? Back to Android...

I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean you want to start with Android and if it doesn't work out, go with iPhone?

While I understand that currency power can vary quite a bit and have a huge effect here (and I don't know if that affects you), I would say it's generally not a big deal compared to other costs.

But another interesting point is there has been suggestions that the subscription fee be much higher, rather than remove it. I am supportive of this. The reasoning behind this is it helps to filter off a certain class of developers that tends to pollute the app store. Part of it is due to the poor discovery facilities of the app store, but making it more exclusive does have it's benefits, and drawbacks, naturally.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#85

Post by gte910h »

pwhelan wrote: post #69
gte910h wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not what that program is for. It is only for internally developed applications for use internally. Useless for a vast majority of things.

And why Android will likely take over the medical market, because one doesn't have to deal with this nonsense.

Yes, I think you're right there will be a large set of medical vendors who will do this.

Then again, there are a LARGE subset of technophobic doctors who love apple and will clamor for that instead.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#86

Post by gte910h »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #45
pstevensza wrote: post #41

Some viable arguments lost in a tirade of hysteria. I've never written an app for the iPhone/iPad, so I have no first hand experience with the approval/rejection nonsense. I do however own an iPhone, and I love the fact that I can expect a certain level of quality in the applications I buy. One thing that makes me snicker about the article in question is the purpose of the app. Why the hell would you want to waste an…

Why the hell would you want to waste an iPad on using it as a picture frame? Why the hell would you want to use an iPhone to make farts? But the app store is full of them. I, as an iPhone developer (reconsidering the thing every time I read news like this one) don't see all that quality in the app store. Sure, there are a lot of high quality apps, but there is a lot of garbage that just piles up hiding worthy applica…

And the iPad appstore app is hideous for browsing, so you have to wade through all the crappy apps to see anything, and whenever you look at an app, you get put back to the beginning of the category.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#87

Post by gte910h »

Raphael wrote: post #36
gte910h wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I'd love too see android be a viable competitor, but until it is, Apple is going to continue reigning. Android is still ultrafragmented, and none of the tablets are out yet (nor will necessarily be that good when they come). Half the iPad development I'm seeing looked for is for B2B apps, not consumer apps.

And how will business apps be viable if you aren't allowed to install your own software?

Most just release free/cheap clients for services they sell for much much more than that for other methods of consumption.

Not associated with any of these companies:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gotomeeting/id363452804?mt=8

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logmein-ignition/id299616801?...

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ac-7-pro-control-surface/id36...

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/citrix-receiver-for-ipad/id36...

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/lexi-complete/id295363885?mt=...

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/webex-for-ipad/id364031971?mt...

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#88

Post by chc »

steveklabnik wrote: post #78
chc wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying Windows' appeal to developers is mainly due to Steve Ballmer embarrassing himself onstage and little or nothing to do with how many users the platform has? I find that quite incredible.

No, I'm saying that Microsoft believes that by bringing the best developers to their side, good apps will be made, and then users will follow. That's why he was screaming that. Now, you may disagree with the way that they're going about doing that, but from what I understand, tools like Visual Studio really are best of breed. I don't use IDEs or Windows, so I wouldn't know, but that's just what I hear.

Yes, they have really great development tools. They really do. But no sane person would look at Microsoft and say Visual Studio .NET is the reason they've dominated the PC market for almost two decades. People develop for Windows because everybody uses Windows. If nobody used Windows, VS would not be enough to keep people developing for the platform.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#89

Post by gte910h »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #61
KingOfB wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://developer.apple.com/programs/iphone/enterprise/ Basically this allows side loading of business apps to approved business of a large (500+) size. I'm not sure if the apps need to be approved by apple still, but I'm guessing they would.

And yet, Apple's opinion on whether an app is appropriate for your company is worthless.

I concur. I hope the courts deem them a monopoly and force them to allow alternate app loading mechanisms to all.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#90

Post by pwhelan »

hboon wrote: post #84
pwhelan wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, for someone like me who is starting to develop for a possible startup idea -- I'm starting with Android. If this doesn't pan out, then other dev will be on Android. I'll do iPhone next then others if it pans out, but if it doesn't? Back to Android...

I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean you want to start with Android and if it doesn't work out, go with iPhone? While I understand that currency power can vary quite a bit and have a huge effect here (and I don't know if that affects you), I would say it's generally not a big deal compared to other costs. But another interesting point is there has been suggestions that the subscription fee be much higher, rather th…

That was a poorly written post on my part.

I am starting out using Android (getting an HTC Incredible soon as well). If I can get things working well with Android and want to start selling apps and/or start a software company for mobile phones -- I will start out with Android. If things go well enough that I am capable of pursuing another platform as well, then I would do the iPhone next but only after Android success. If I were to fail here, I would stick with Android because of the flexibility and I believe there are more opportunities there. I don't see Apple's ecosystem allowing business software to truly thrive on iPhone/iPad in comparison to Android and others -- I also believe this is intentional.

Post reply on HN