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A world without retirement?

theguardian.com

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Re: A world without retirement?

#161

Post by NickBusey »

remir wrote: post #50
groestl wrote: post #9

Where do the jobs for the elderly come from, if even young, healthy people are gradually priced out of their jobs by technology and automation? Right now, good jobs are replaced by bad, underpaid ones. Desperate people are serving burritos to a smaller group of people who are lucky to have the skills necessary in this time of transition. All of them work to aggregate productive capital in the hands of the very few. I…

What is money, really? Money, today, is not in sync with a world made of matter and with the needs of a changing world. Your city needs to build a new bridge, a subway station or a new hospital? It has the engineers, the architects, the workers, the machines and the materials needed, you can begin construction right now, but if there is no "money", nothing will get done. How absurd is that? I just came back from the…

I'm curious how exactly you would go about controlling population growth.

Re: A world without retirement?

#162

Post by curun1r »

donw wrote: post #134
curun1r wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're retiring to another country, it makes sense to open a local bank account and have a fairly substantial amount denominated in the local currency. Some retirement visas even require that. That should protect you against a temporary drop in the USD. A long-term drop in the dollar means something really bad happened in the US, which would likely be bad for people retired here too. Worst case scenario, if the US…

Mind if I ask where in in SE Asia? I'm having a hard time coming up with a place where a couple of retirees could live reasonably on less than about $2k monthly (when factoring in age-related healthcare costs). Which is still probably close to a 40% savings over living stateside -- mostly due to medical expenses, of course. I suppose a follow-on question would be do these countries also provide for assisted living, o…

I also spent time in Malaysia, Philippines and Indonesia and all were pretty cheap, but I had Thailand in mind when I wrote my previous comment. They have a retirement visa that means you only need to do visa runs every six months. The only requirements are age (IIRC it was above 50) and a bank account in with, IIRC, around $20K in Baht. I had a medical procedure performed there for which I had been quoted close to $1500 in out of pocket costs beyond what my insurance would cover here in the US. Without insurance, it cost just over $100 there. Dunno if that kind of savings would apply to all medical care, but that's my only data point. Other costs would depend on where you chose to live. Bangkok was more expensive and one of my least favorite places I visited. $2k/mo might be hard there. The islands and south coasts are a lot nicer and $2k/mo is a pretty reasonable target. Chiang Mai was among my favorite cities I visited. $2k/mo is more than you'd need there. Rent is ~$400 and a meal for two is $2-$6. There's a reason why it has a huge expat community...the combination of pretty, comfortable and cheap is hard to beat. For obvious reasons, I can't comment on the cost of an assisted living facility.

Re: A world without retirement?

#163

Post by VLM »

pm90 wrote: post #122
milesrout wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>twice in the last century, with so many white people on the subcontinent, europe dissolved into mass barbarism And of course the people in the middle east have been so peaceful in the same time period.

I don't agree with the parent's hypothesis that white people have some inherent instinct to start world wars when there are too many of them, but to answer you assertion: while there have been many many disasters in the middle east, they still don't come to the same scale as the destruction caused by the World Wars (and resulting Civil Wars and instability).

This has to be the weirdest thread I've seen on HN in some time. Ignoring all the race and world war stuff, look at Californication as applies to lifestyle in Oregon. I'm not making a moral or ethical argument merely an observation that demographically replacing the population of Oregon with California people, results in a "northern california" lifestyle in the state formerly known as Oregon. So if you think you're going to live in Oregon with an Oregon lifestyle and retirement package in 50 years, you are in for a big surprise when there is no Oregon anymore, merely "north california".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Californication_(word)

Given the observed rates of demographic change, it seems very foolish to expect the "gold pocketwatch and pension" of 1950s to continue in perpetuity in the UK or Europe in general. For example when Europe goes full on Islamic how does Sharia law work WRT legacy 1950s era western pensions.

You can't wipe out a population, replace with another demographic, and pretend magic dirt means nothing else will change. Look at the lifestyle in Jewish Ghettos in Poland and Germany before and after the Holocaust for an example. Or look at Manhattan island two hundred years before the euro colonists vs two hundred years after the euro colonists. Thats all I'm saying. Regardless of right or wrong we're waving goodbye to what was Europe and it seems extremely foolish to assume legacy euro retirement programs will exist in the future due to magic dirt.

Re: A world without retirement?

#164

Post by germinalphrase »

VLM wrote: post #163
pm90 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with the parent's hypothesis that white people have some inherent instinct to start world wars when there are too many of them, but to answer you assertion: while there have been many many disasters in the middle east, they still don't come to the same scale as the destruction caused by the World Wars (and resulting Civil Wars and instability).

This has to be the weirdest thread I've seen on HN in some time. Ignoring all the race and world war stuff, look at Californication as applies to lifestyle in Oregon. I'm not making a moral or ethical argument merely an observation that demographically replacing the population of Oregon with California people, results in a "northern california" lifestyle in the state formerly known as Oregon. So if you think you're g…

It's the "wipe out a population" thing that I'm getting hung up on. Certainly, state pensions are increasingly problematic, but your assertion of cultural extinction is jarring - very 'Camp of the Saints'.

Re: A world without retirement?

#165

Post by devdas »

lacampbell wrote: post #108
michaelchisari wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems extraordinarily unfair to the developing countries, especially if it becomes something that people do en masse.

Developing countries generally have very strict immigration requirements. It's not like Western Europe where you can literally walk in with no papers and get welfare. Trust me, they're not going to end up paying for anything old retired westerners need.

Getting into Western Europe needs a lot of paperwork and funds. You can't get welfare unless you are a citizen, or permanent resident either.

Re: A world without retirement?

#166

Post by nasalgoat »

pm90 wrote: post #124
kwhitefoot wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even here in the supposedly socialist paradise of Norway capital gains are more lightly taxed than earnings. My marginal tax rate on earnings is 50% but interest or income from mutual funds is taxed at 27%. At least it was last time I looked, not much I can do about either of those numbers so I don't think about them any more.

This is probably wayy off topic, but not having met real life earning Norwegians (traveling students don't count): how does it feel to be giving away half of what you earn to the government? I'm trying to phrase this question as blandly as possible; don't mean to be snarky or anything. My own political philosophy has been migrating from something far-right to more center, but this is one issue that does bother me ver…

As a Canadian I can safely say I pay about 50% of my earnings in various taxes.

I don't mind too much because I never really see the money, and I get useful government services out of it for the most part. Would I like my taxes to be lower? Sure. But I see the benefit to society my taxes bring.

Re: A world without retirement?

#167

Post by remir »

NickBusey wrote: post #161
remir wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is money, really? Money, today, is not in sync with a world made of matter and with the needs of a changing world. Your city needs to build a new bridge, a subway station or a new hospital? It has the engineers, the architects, the workers, the machines and the materials needed, you can begin construction right now, but if there is no "money", nothing will get done. How absurd is that? I just came back from the…

I'm curious how exactly you would go about controlling population growth.

Access to better education and opportunities, especially for women, in developing countries. Promoting the use of contraception, too.

Re: A world without retirement?

#168

Post by voycey »

xs83 wrote: post #133

If anyone has ever read the Commonwealth Saga by Peter F Hamilton (for those of you who haven't I highly recommend it), in this world there is no such thing as Retirement, your "pension" is actually just a savings bond to pay for your next rejuvenation, rinse and repeat as many times as you like and then when you are bored of it all you can either just die or download your brain into ANA (a post physical "afterlife")…

Not sure what I did to deserve a downvote on this - relevant sci-fi trivia #asshat

Re: A world without retirement?

#169

Post by kwhitefoot »

grkvlt wrote: post #155
pm90 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably wayy off topic, but not having met real life earning Norwegians (traveling students don't count): how does it feel to be giving away half of what you earn to the government? I'm trying to phrase this question as blandly as possible; don't mean to be snarky or anything. My own political philosophy has been migrating from something far-right to more center, but this is one issue that does bother me ver…

Remember, though, that 50% is the marginal tax rate. I don't know the tax brackets in Norway, but only income over X amount will be taxed at that rate, the first X will have a different (series of) lower rates, and generally the first Y amount has 0% tax, for some small-ish Y. This means that his amortized tax rate is less that 50%, maybe even much less if income is only a small amount over the X threshold for 50% ta…

Actually now, 46,72% is the highest marginal rate, see http://www.smartepenger.no/faktabank/skatt/635-marginalskatt....

You have earn over NOK900k to pay that, about USD105k.

Tax on capital gains is now down to 24%.

I should have looked those numbers up earlier.

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