Why Isn’t OpenBSD in Google Summer of Code 2017? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Isn’t OpenBSD in Google Summer of Code 2017?

#21

Post by tw04 » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 2:29 PM UTC

throwaway2048 wrote: post #4

vog wrote: post #2

This is sad. It means that Google Summer of Code imposes too much bureaucracy onto Free Software projects. In other words, GSoC is only viable for those projects whohave enough spare volunteers to begin with.

I think in OpenBSD's case it was that, plus the fact that they got essentially zero code that was anywhere near their standards, or any devs willing to commit longer-term to improve it. If the results had been better, more mentors/devs would have been willing to step up. GSOC promotes dumps of low to mid quality code that then goes unmaintained. After all its focused on relatively junior programmers doing it for a ni…

How exactly is OpenBSD planning on getting more coders that can code to their standards if they aren't willing to teach anybody? NIH + an unwillingness to let anyone else into the house seems like an excellent way for a project to find itself facing the brink should 1 or 2 core developers leave the project for any reason.

>without an eye to maintainability that later rots in tree and makes everyone else's job worse.

...that's the whole point of the mentors. IF that's what OpenBSD is getting out of GSoC, it's the mentor(s) fault, not GSoCs.

Re: Why Isn’t OpenBSD in Google Summer of Code 2017?

#22

Post by d33 » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 2:34 PM UTC

dublinben wrote: post #20

stsp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For this particular open source project GSoC brings no advantage to the table (yes, it may be great for other projects). OpenBSD does not need GSoC to attract contributors. The project gets a good amount of new contributors on a regular basis, and they get onboarded quickly without causing much distraction, if any. The mentor/student relationship is atypical for open source projects which are used to operating as a c…

>The mentor/student relationship is atypical for open source projects This is exactly one of the flaws in most open source projects, which projects like GSoC and Outreachy aim to improve. Mentor relationships are one of the keys to building a more inclusive community, and reaching underrepresented groups.

I'm interested to hear more. Could you elaborate?

Re: Why Isn’t OpenBSD in Google Summer of Code 2017?

#23

Post by throwaway2048 » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 2:43 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #21

throwaway2048 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in OpenBSD's case it was that, plus the fact that they got essentially zero code that was anywhere near their standards, or any devs willing to commit longer-term to improve it. If the results had been better, more mentors/devs would have been willing to step up. GSOC promotes dumps of low to mid quality code that then goes unmaintained. After all its focused on relatively junior programmers doing it for a ni…

How exactly is OpenBSD planning on getting more coders that can code to their standards if they aren't willing to teach anybody? NIH + an unwillingness to let anyone else into the house seems like an excellent way for a project to find itself facing the brink should 1 or 2 core developers leave the project for any reason. >without an eye to maintainability that later rots in tree and makes everyone else's job worse.…

They were willing to mentor people via GSoC, nobody stuck around (almost all the applicants do it for the money, rather than an interest in volenteering), ergo its not worth their time. Even in organizations that have a high priority towards onboarding new devs, GSoC retention rates are typically very low.

They have no issues attracting devs via other channels.

Re: Why Isn’t OpenBSD in Google Summer of Code 2017?

#24

Post by protomyth » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 2:58 PM UTC

Is there some statistics out there for number of students whose code is still used and/or are now developers/contributors on the project the did GSoC for?

Re: Why Isn’t OpenBSD in Google Summer of Code 2017?

#25

Post by richardwhiuk » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 2:59 PM UTC

Beltiras wrote: post #19

Even if the current contributions are slim, wouldn't the long term benefit of perhaps gaining a permanent contributor outweigh the current effort to educate more people?

The underlying suggestion is that they see very low conversion from 'GSoC student' to 'active volunteer developer post GSoC'

Re: Why Isn’t OpenBSD in Google Summer of Code 2017?

#26

Post by bluGill » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 3:09 PM UTC

Beltiras wrote: post #19

Even if the current contributions are slim, wouldn't the long term benefit of perhaps gaining a permanent contributor outweigh the current effort to educate more people?

Experience (across many open source projects) is that the majority of students are gone at the end of summer. The long term benefits you cite are great when they exist, but for a project they just don't happen.

Most students seem to treat GSOC as a way of getting experience for the commercial world, with no intent to sticking with the project long term. There is nothing wrong with this, and it is a good thing that there are mentors willing to put in effort to help these students. However this is NOT good for the project itself.

Re: Why Isn’t OpenBSD in Google Summer of Code 2017?

#27

Post by Beltiras » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 3:11 PM UTC

richardwhiuk wrote: post #25

Beltiras wrote: post #19

Even if the current contributions are slim, wouldn't the long term benefit of perhaps gaining a permanent contributor outweigh the current effort to educate more people?

The underlying suggestion is that they see very low conversion from 'GSoC student' to 'active volunteer developer post GSoC'

For a community to thrive it must respect their elders and teach their young. How do you survive in the face of inevitable death if you won't take in more young? Someone has to think past 2038.

Re: Why Isn’t OpenBSD in Google Summer of Code 2017?

#28

Post by Gracana » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 3:17 PM UTC

Beltiras wrote: post #19

Even if the current contributions are slim, wouldn't the long term benefit of perhaps gaining a permanent contributor outweigh the current effort to educate more people?

The email says that's the reason they tried it for two years, but it didn't work out, so they're not trying again.

Re: Why Isn’t OpenBSD in Google Summer of Code 2017?

#29

Post by Gracana » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 3:22 PM UTC

Beltiras wrote: post #27

richardwhiuk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The underlying suggestion is that they see very low conversion from 'GSoC student' to 'active volunteer developer post GSoC'

For a community to thrive it must respect their elders and teach their young. How do you survive in the face of inevitable death if you won't take in more young? Someone has to think past 2038.

Maybe so, but it seems like GSoC is not the path to this goal.

Re: Why Isn’t OpenBSD in Google Summer of Code 2017?

#30

Post by Gracana » Mon, Apr 03, 2017, 3:27 PM UTC

samueloph wrote: post #11

On the other hand, i was discussing a gsoc project on Debian since last year (was very excited about it), and guess what, Debian was not accepted as a gsoc organization for this year, nice... edit-> i'm a student and gsoc's stipend would help me a lot.

I don't know what the timeline for GSoC is so maybe it's too late, but Haiku (BeOS-inspired/compatible open source OS ) was accepted again this year and might be of interest to you.