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Tor in a safer language: Network team update from Amsterdam

lists.torproject.org

21–30 of 254 posts

Re: Tor in a safer language: Network team update from Amsterdam

#21
post #5

I don't know much about Tor. But I hope I can route all of my home network traffic through it. That or route everything through VPN. I'll bet you can guess why I'm suddenly interested.

Founder of https://easyvpnrouter.com/ ask me anything or how to build one yourself if you want a project

Re: Tor in a safer language: Network team update from Amsterdam

#22

I am curious why they were advised not to use Go. Probably not a safety concern. Edit: cgo != Go. Thanks for the responses. I have done a bit of Go, but just pure Go.

Here's what I'd have told them:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14013617

Re: Tor in a safer language: Network team update from Amsterdam

#23

As a mere average user of computer languages, every time I play around with Go I start wondering how a language like this became so popular. It feels like it was invented in a universe where Haskell, OCaml, Erlang, Smalltalk, Lisp and so many more languages and research in languages never happened.

Sometimes I think the syntactical difference of functional languages alone is the reason they're unpopular.

Iterative languages seem to match more closely how people speak/think in verbal language.

Re: Tor in a safer language: Network team update from Amsterdam

#24
post #8
post #2

This is exciting not only because of the Tor project itself but because this will set an example for other projects to follow.

This creates also an opportunity to engage Mozilla into contributing

If any of the developers are reading this, converting the existing C code to SaferCPlusPlus[1] (a memory safe subset of C++) is probably a more expedient solution (if that's what they're looking for). (And speaking of contributing, an automatic translation (assistance) tool is in early development, and could maybe be functional in short order with a little extra motivated talent... :)

[1] shameless plug: https://github.com/duneroadrunner/SaferCPlusPlus

Re: Tor in a safer language: Network team update from Amsterdam

#25

Since bitexploder asked, I'll add what I wrote on this on other forums. If it's about secrets or anonymity, make sure you always use a safe language that supports careful control and reasoning about both memory and CPU time. The reason is that this enables covert, channel analysis for vulnerabilities that leak secrets through storage and timing. It's why I wanted Freenet to ditch Java aside from the obvious reasons.…

It's unlikely that the cost of whole-program side channel resistance is worth it for an application like Tor. Side-channel-resistant cryptography is almost certainly sufficient for most reasonable threat/cost models.

Re: Tor in a safer language: Network team update from Amsterdam

#26

I'm disappointed they did not consider COBAL given its vast superiority and flawless track record for April first rewrites.

Fri Mar 31 21:23:27 UTC 2017

I believe there is a crate they can use to prevent date bound out of bounds fun leaks. (can't find the link atm)

Re: Tor in a safer language: Network team update from Amsterdam

#27

Since bitexploder asked, I'll add what I wrote on this on other forums. If it's about secrets or anonymity, make sure you always use a safe language that supports careful control and reasoning about both memory and CPU time. The reason is that this enables covert, channel analysis for vulnerabilities that leak secrets through storage and timing. It's why I wanted Freenet to ditch Java aside from the obvious reasons.…

You can use some analysis tools on Rust code, because it generates C-ABI-compatible objects; for instance, I'd expect that https://github.com/agl/ctgrind would work on Rust.

Looking at the MISRA-C guidelines (or more specifically, a pirated copy - are these available legitimately to the public?), it seems like about half of them aren't problems in Rust, because it's warning you about stupid things in C that can't be fixed for legacy reasons, and half of them are things that could be caught with a linter / static analysis tool like https://github.com/Manishearth/rust-clippy . Do you think building something that implements as many of the MISRA-C checks as possible is useful progress towards the high-assurance Rust goal?

Re: Tor in a safer language: Network team update from Amsterdam

#30
post #5

I don't know much about Tor. But I hope I can route all of my home network traffic through it. That or route everything through VPN. I'll bet you can guess why I'm suddenly interested.

Couple of things. With Tor, you cannot control your exit in a sense. Since some websites are really shoddy (a lot of application portals are) and don't have / support SSL, you would be transmitting your entire application profile through TOR unencrypted. Somehow, I trust my ISP more than some random TOR exit when it comes to this. Second, many websites (sadly) do not work if you are using a VPN (like Netflix).

Netflix's VPN detection seems to work by blacklisting a known list of IPs (e.g. AWS datacenters, etc.). Proxying through a machine that's not on the list works.
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