641–649 of 649 posts
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What's at stake here is more fundamental than federalism: it's self determination. Throughout history, discrete groups have waged wars of independence to ensure that they can have a government that reflects their shared history, culture, and values. My family is from Bangladesh, which fought a war to separate from Pakistan over cultural/linguistic differences. In another example, Israel is engaged in an existential b…
> People are being prodded to give up their sovereignty to a supra-national bureaucracy, and to be assimilated into a hetrogenous body politic with hundreds of millions of other people with which they share little other than said bureaucracy. It's just not true. People of the European continent have been mingling with each other for about 2000 years. The whole continent's juristic thinking roots in the Roman Empire,…
We're not talking about alliances (which happen all the time without political union) or trade areas (which the EU originally was) we're talking about supra-national centralised bureaucracy.
Change is inevitable and it's healthy to have multiple self governed states doing things differently from each other and co-operating from time to time.
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Any ? Certainly. How much I would not want to say — my opinion is that UKIP created the dissatisfaction that they fed upon for votes. But that's just opinion.
I think it's unlikely that members skeptical of the institution itself would have much influence. I think the Leavers were dissatisfied from the beginning. You can directly trace the formation of UKIP from the Maastricht Rebels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Rebels in the Major government. UKIP was formed out of protest at what they saw as the EU going off in a highly political direction (i.e. becoming a l…
The EU might have retained popular respect with UK voters if the MEPs that the UK sent to parliament had voted in accordance with their electorate's desires rather than not-voted-because-they-are-a-protest.
Or not. Quite a lot of stuff in the media that is anti-EU, too. That might be more powerful.
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I'm sorry, you lost me when you started on about empire, I've seen nobody calling for a return to empire, or even invoking empire except as a way to harangue and belittle those who voted leave. You seem very hostile to the UK generally. Weird given your last comparatively friendly comment.
I'm British and I agree with everything he said. There is a very real pro-Monarchy, post-Empire resentment of anything not British among a large section of the British people. They might not say it out loud, but it's clear in the things they say.
There is xenophobia but I think if you look closely you'll find that in most European countries as well. No doubt that instinct will now be directed at the British.
This is clearly about political systems.
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The Commission gets a bad rap because basically it's been stuffed with cronies and friends of council members. The UK may be the worst for this, we had one Commissioner who had been disgraced out of the UK cabinet twice, and then found himself in a nice 'untouchable' position on the Commission. He's now a Lord. There are flaws in UK democracy certainly but I don't think the EU got it right. I also fundamentally have…
> Switzerland and Iceland Sure but the UK is not Switzerland or Iceland. On the world stage Iceland is irrelevant. It's a lot like Switzerland without influence. Sure, Iceland can afford to be eccentric about world politics because it's not under the direct influence of other countries to the same extent as most are but it also doesn't hold any real influence itself. The UK doesn't want to be Iceland, it wants to be…
13% of UK GDP is from European trade (fact). So whilst the UK would quite like a trade deal it is hardly reliant on it. Any loss from tariffs on European trade may well be exceeded from the resulting drop in tariffs with non EU nations. Biggest difference post Brexit will be less BMWs and more Kias.
I think the thing you're missing is that the UK has a long history of democracy and slow improvements to it. Large parts of Europe do not have such a libertarian consciousness.
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I think you missed my point, which is you are legally unable to do this. Small businesses operating in the UK are required to pay tax within the UK, as is the case with much of Europe. Further, unless the countries have a tax treaty, you might incur double tax and an arrest warrant may be issued if you fail to comply with the rules. Sure, I'm well aware that big companies play games with this sort of thing, but the r…
> I think you missed my point, which is you are legally unable to do this You missed my point, which is it's 100% legal to do this, it's not unreasonably difficult to do this, and people do this right now. > Small businesses operating in the UK are required to pay tax within the UK So, incorporated in the Netherlands (or elsewhere) and do business there, but subcontract the work to yourself through a UK company that…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4369558/Greed-bankru...
The law is as such if the company or directed from the UK, then you have to pay UK tax. Further, most of us would simply be bankrupted defending yourself.
You're peddling bad advice. I say this as someone who has had HMRC investigations against them.
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I think it's unlikely that members skeptical of the institution itself would have much influence. I think the Leavers were dissatisfied from the beginning. You can directly trace the formation of UKIP from the Maastricht Rebels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Rebels in the Major government. UKIP was formed out of protest at what they saw as the EU going off in a highly political direction (i.e. becoming a l…
Those skeptics certainly started skeptical, but they were also a tiny minority. I was thinking about the people who they convinced to side with them, and how UKIP's refusal to participate in any meaningful way may have created the evidence they needed to convince people the EU wasn't listening. The EU might have retained popular respect with UK voters if the MEPs that the UK sent to parliament had voted in accordance…
I'm not sure what you mean by a tiny minority. IIRC the UK Parliament voted against Maastricht twice and it went through on the third attempt. I think UKIP has exploited and perhaps stoked the skepticism, but IMO did not create it.
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Those skeptics certainly started skeptical, but they were also a tiny minority. I was thinking about the people who they convinced to side with them, and how UKIP's refusal to participate in any meaningful way may have created the evidence they needed to convince people the EU wasn't listening. The EU might have retained popular respect with UK voters if the MEPs that the UK sent to parliament had voted in accordance…
I just don't think many people in the UK in general (not just Parliament and the media) like the EU. I spoke to a lot of people who voiced anti-EU sentiment but voted Remain out of fear of the consequences. I remember there being just as much if not more dislike in the early 90's after Black Wednesday. I'm not sure what you mean by a tiny minority. IIRC the UK Parliament voted against Maastricht twice and it went thr…
As for polling, it looks like my memory doesn't quite match reality: http://theconversation.com/polling-history-40-years-of-briti...
This polling history shows wild oscillation over time, and the EU was formed from its predecessor just as things were close. I had been under the impression it was a gradual shift from the high of 1979 to the low of 2016.
Regardless, "stoked" sounds like a good description of UKIP's behaviour to me, so I think we may be agreeing with each other.
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I just don't think many people in the UK in general (not just Parliament and the media) like the EU. I spoke to a lot of people who voiced anti-EU sentiment but voted Remain out of fear of the consequences. I remember there being just as much if not more dislike in the early 90's after Black Wednesday. I'm not sure what you mean by a tiny minority. IIRC the UK Parliament voted against Maastricht twice and it went thr…
Certainly — if it had been actively liked then the vote might have gone the other way. As for polling, it looks like my memory doesn't quite match reality: http://theconversation.com/polling-history-40-years-of-briti... This polling history shows wild oscillation over time, and the EU was formed from its predecessor just as things were close. I had been under the impression it was a gradual shift from the high of 197…