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Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

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Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#21

Post by throwaway7645 »

pacaro wrote: post #18
throwaway7645 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did spend a fortune marketing Java when Smalltalk was poised to be THE new enterprise language.

I remember all too well. Sun had mindshare at the time too, in a way that the far bigger IBM didn't. I'm just glad none of the 4GLs won

I'll cede my past reading of internet blog articles describing a time I was pooping in diapers to your actual real-world experience :)

2 questions..why did the smaller Sun have more mindshare and what were the 4GLs? I might not be familiar with the term.

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#23

Post by skybrian »

metricodus wrote: post #11
coldtea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's so bad about Dart, if you disregard the "Google is trying to subvert the web" angst? I quite like the optional typing in the language, for instance. A new language that doesn't solve anything better than Smalltalk did.

It does provide the feature of optional typing, as I just said. I spent my formative years developing in a language with optional typing and really grew to like it. I think it's a great concept that has missed the mainstream somehow. Besides from that the syntax is completely different, being inherited from C.

Dart is moving away from optional typing towards static typing with inference. (It's useful for ahead-of-time compilation.) Take a look at strong mode. But since you can leave out the types in simple situations, it often looks the same.

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#24

Post by jcstk »

metricodus wrote: post #6
coldtea wrote: post #5

Month aside, it would be a great thing to actually happen... Instead of e.g. Google investing tens of millions on BS like Dart.

What's so bad about Dart, if you disregard the "Google is trying to subvert the web" angst from people who have invested heavily in the javascript world? I quite like the optional typing in the language, for instance. I just wish there was more serverside-development happening in Dart - it seems 95% client-side focused at the moment (dart2js and flutter).

For server side Dart, http://stablekernel.github.io/aqueduct/

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#25

Post by pacaro »

throwaway7645 wrote: post #21
pacaro wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember all too well. Sun had mindshare at the time too, in a way that the far bigger IBM didn't. I'm just glad none of the 4GLs won

I'll cede my past reading of internet blog articles describing a time I was pooping in diapers to your actual real-world experience :) 2 questions..why did the smaller Sun have more mindshare and what were the 4GLs? I might not be familiar with the term.

The Fourth Generation Languages where supposed to take over from the Third Generation Languages (C, C++, Pascal, Fortran, COBOL etc.) for higher level work (like business computing)

Many have been successful within niches, but Java was a brand new 3GL at a time when a lot of industry focus was on 4GLs.

I think sun had mindshare because they understood the nascent internet much better. From my perspective it was the first time I had seen a marketing effort of that scale behind a programming language.

Sun also supported SunSITE which was pretty much the best place to find FOSS at the time

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_programming_...

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#29

Post by louiscyphre »

Smalltalk is the second most loved programming language, according to the 2017 StackOverflow survey. (Rust is most loved.) If any language deserves a second chance, it's Smalltalk.

Thus, there's no reason why Smalltalk can't be widely adopted, whether it's in the enterprise or elsewhere (teaching, hobbyist, research, machine learning, natural language processing, IoT, virtual reality, etc.).

Teaching: https://medium.com/p/an-open-letter-to-all-universities-ad98...

Machine learning: https://biosmalltalk.github.io/web/

IoT: https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/pharo-pi-9eef257b6a21

Virtual reality: http://www.opencobalt.net and http://www.3dicc.com

Re: Smalltalk to get a second crack at the whip

#30

Post by throwaway7645 »

pacaro wrote: post #25
throwaway7645 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll cede my past reading of internet blog articles describing a time I was pooping in diapers to your actual real-world experience :) 2 questions..why did the smaller Sun have more mindshare and what were the 4GLs? I might not be familiar with the term.

The Fourth Generation Languages where supposed to take over from the Third Generation Languages (C, C++, Pascal, Fortran, COBOL etc.) for higher level work (like business computing) Many have been successful within niches, but Java was a brand new 3GL at a time when a lot of industry focus was on 4GLs. I think sun had mindshare because they understood the nascent internet much better. From my perspective it was the f…

Interesting thanks!
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