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Robinhood stock trading app valued at $1.3B with big raise from DST

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Re: Robinhood stock trading app valued at $1.3B with big raise from DST

#61
post #13

FYI - you will not have a good time buying and selling stocks onesie-twosie when it comes time to filling out your tax return. If you want to avoid commissions, Schwab & Fidelity have commission free ETF's - just buy and hold.

True, but only if you don't use Turbo Tax. My first year after graduating (and dabbling in stocks/ETFs) I had a painful time filling it out manually on H&R Block. Last year, Robinhood's integration made it so easy that I was both simultaneously pissed that I'm pretty much locked into Turbo Tax and amazed that it's so nice with all its integrations (e.g. also works on Lending Club, Wealthfront, etc).

Did H&R Block software not support your specific brokerage? Pulling in consolidated 1099s from major brokerage houses seems to be a relatively well-solved problem in tax prep world.

Re: Robinhood stock trading app valued at $1.3B with big raise from DST

#62
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Robinhood Gold interest is 6%. Interactive Brokers is 2.4% [1]. Why do you think there is such a massive difference, and would anyone benefit from paying it? I've used IB (and don't use robinhood). The IB GUI is a fucking trainwreck. If design had ethical obligations the way bridge engineering does, IB's designers would be in prison. It is bad. And it's still one of the better trading interfaces. Ever seen a blo…

Shameless plug: if you like good UI on Mac, check out Stockfolio, http://apple.co/2niG1PY One of our next updates should include linking to your brokerage + support for buying and selling shares. IB should (hopefully) be one of the supported brokerages.

This is something I am interested in, but the fact that you don't have a website about this app boggles my mind. I have simple questions like, how much of a pain in the ass is it to import your current holdings.

Re: Robinhood stock trading app valued at $1.3B with big raise from DST

#63
post #59

Robinhood's Gold tier, which is a different name for buying on margin, has potentially dire implications for the health of the economy.... The great depression was largely the result of massive numbers of everyman speculators entering the markets with reckless amounts of leverage. Robinhood vastly lowers the barrier for gambling with money you don't own. There's a reason you can't buy lottery tickets with credit card…

They offer 2x margin with the normal rules against pattern day trading with There are much better options for high-risk (reckless) trading, like 500x Forex accounts, "binary options", and lots of other nonsense enabled by offshore jurisdictions. For an easy example of how reckless/risky these alternatives are, look at FXCM/Alpari/etc after the 2015 EURCHF action.

Holy shit you weren't kidding. A search for 500x forex brings up all sorts of day traders doing this stuff. Scary.

Re: Robinhood stock trading app valued at $1.3B with big raise from DST

#64
Aren't there opportunities for arbitrage given the zero transactional costs on Robinhood?

I haven't thought it through that much, but it feels like a lot of sound trading strategies (which were previously impractical due to high transactional costs) can be made to work on Robinhood.

*Maybe arbitrage is the wrong term, but zero cost of trading would mean more efficient trading strategies. No?

Re: Robinhood stock trading app valued at $1.3B with big raise from DST

#65
I'm a Robinhood user and am definitely liking the experience thus far. A few things that could be better:

a) The only manual order entry method is via the mobile client. There's situations where rapid order entry could definitely be a lot less painful, e.g. limit orders on high-volatility stocks. I've read that some people run multiple instances of the RH client, with one instance running on a desktop system using an android emulator. Not exactly ideal, though supposedly there's an actual web/desktop client in the works. I'd gladly make my own if there was a public API.

b) Robinhood Gold is nice—its simplified presentation is very elegant. However, if they're going to aggressively market relabeled margin accounts to often-clueless retail traders, they need to explain things better. Preferably an entire page with visual explanations and examples of what can happen in different scenarios; stupid-simple stuff that's unambiguous. I can see a lot of people not fully understanding the FAQ on their site, and just thinking "Oh, more buying power!". The current explanations are decent, but it could be a lot better given their target audience.

c) No public API. It's a planned feature that hasn't arrived yet. While Quantopian[0] integration is nice—and definitely better than nothing—it isn't for everyone. I've seen unofficial APIs that send HTTP requests to their private API based off of sniffed traffic from the mobile client (no thanks).

d) No short selling. There's no way to hedge your downside risk or otherwise trade a beta-neutral system on Robinhood currently without using another broker. If the market tanks, most RH users will get wrecked. Especially if it happens fast and they sit there fumbling with order entry.

Overall I love Robinhood, I just wish they'd roll out essential features faster, or at least provide better estimates than "the near future".

-

As an aside, if there's any algo traders here that use Robinhood and Quantopian together, I'd love to hear your experiences.

From what I've seen, Quantopian doesn't seem to be suitable for trading at a frequency below minute bars, so I figured it might be possible to use Quantopian as an order conduit for an external system—allowing that external system to in effect place orders on Robinhood as a stop-gap until Robinhood has a public API.

It's a side project and I'm not a Quantopian user, so I haven't yet evaluated the technical feasibility of such a setup.

Obviously I could just move to IB, but I really appreciate Robinhood's engineering ethos. While I'm sure IB's APIs are solid (and they're far more fully-featured), their platform does have a lot of legacy cruft[1] that gives me pause.

[0] https://www.quantopian.com/

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14009778

Re: Robinhood stock trading app valued at $1.3B with big raise from DST

#66
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have my doubts that playing with the stock market is in any way conducive to "financial health" for the average consumer.

Traditionally (or when I started looking), a single stock trade was $6 so you'd have to be moving 4 digits at a time to avoid losing everything to fees. But Robinhood's free. You can do $6 of trades in a year, still learn about stocks and not necessarily lose anything. Very hard to complain about that. I think a little literacy is needed, since if you're lucky enough to have savings buying CMF+VXF is a much better de…

Depends on what stage of the cycle you buy in at and what stage of the cycle you sell.

Right now equities are priced very highly

Re: Robinhood stock trading app valued at $1.3B with big raise from DST

#68

Aren't there opportunities for arbitrage given the zero transactional costs on Robinhood? I haven't thought it through that much, but it feels like a lot of sound trading strategies (which were previously impractical due to high transactional costs) can be made to work on Robinhood. *Maybe arbitrage is the wrong term, but zero cost of trading would mean more efficient trading strategies. No?

That's my line of thinking as well. Not arbitrage, but perhaps trading at a frequency not profitable on other retail platforms (and obviously a couple orders of magnitude slower than HFT).

Some things you could perhaps do on Robinhood that aren't feasible with other retail brokers include:

a) Tiny, tiny position sizes, even on small accounts. 1% position sizing? What about 0.1%?

b) Not incurring a transaction fee if your system decides to immediately exit a position after entering it due to adverse movement in the time it took to fill the order.

Potential concerns might be:

1. Order execution speed. Sending orders to retail brokers via the internet can only be so fast, but it'd be interesting to benchmark Robinhood vs IB for example.

2. Order execution capability. There's no public API, just Quantopian integration. My other post in this thread touches on that.

3. Order execution quality. RH sells order flow. How much this matters is probably beyond my knowledge. I'm inclined to think that it wouldn't matter too much, and is more likely to adversely affect competing HFT firms who are in competition against the order flow buyer(s) than it would people trading at even the upper bounds of retail frequencies.

4. How many trades is too many? Will Robinhood shut you off at some point? Another post suggested RH is paid a fixed amount per share in their order flow dealings, so if that's the case then maybe Robinhood wouldn't care. Certainly as soon as they have a public API there's going to be people making a lot of trades, barring any artificial limitations.

Of course, if your margin account balance is below $25,000 you'll be subject to pattern day trading restrictions and unable to execute such a system since Robinhood is purely stocks. I loathe PDT rules to the core of my being and believe they actually increase risk for short-term traders, but that's a rant best saved for another time.

Re: Robinhood stock trading app valued at $1.3B with big raise from DST

#69
Robinhood is just a marketing play. Anything about them selling flow or using margin offerings to become profitable is not realistic.

Traditional brokerages have a customer acquisition cost of around $400 to get someone to deposit at least $100 in an account.

They've got a million users and continue to grow quicker and quicker. For a small multiple of traditional CAC they are already close to their >$1B valuation just in terms of user acquisition.

It's not easy to get funded brokerage accounts, especially funded accounts by millennials. Their current user base might not be worth much, but the average age of a brokerage account in the US is over 20 years. That means that Robinhood's AUM is only going to grow as their user base gets older and has more money.

Frankly, the current brokerage houses have been dumping hundreds of millions into marketing to try to acquire millennial users without a ton of success. TD Ameritrade alone spent $300 million last year in ads, a lot of that targeted at the millennial market.

Robinhood is a user acquisition strategy for the millennial market and they'll get bought for $2-3 billion within a couple years by one of the existing brokerage houses.

Re: Robinhood stock trading app valued at $1.3B with big raise from DST

#70
post #59

Robinhood's Gold tier, which is a different name for buying on margin, has potentially dire implications for the health of the economy.... The great depression was largely the result of massive numbers of everyman speculators entering the markets with reckless amounts of leverage. Robinhood vastly lowers the barrier for gambling with money you don't own. There's a reason you can't buy lottery tickets with credit card…

They offer 2x margin with the normal rules against pattern day trading with There are much better options for high-risk (reckless) trading, like 500x Forex accounts, "binary options", and lots of other nonsense enabled by offshore jurisdictions. For an easy example of how reckless/risky these alternatives are, look at FXCM/Alpari/etc after the 2015 EURCHF action.

How do sketchy offshore shops collect on negative cash balances?

500:1 leverage sounds so crazy I wouldn't be surprised if it's used as a money laundering vector.

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