Fuchsia: a new operating system

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 5:36 AM UTC

catern wrote: post #145

naasking wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for another beautiful convergence: nowadays most software development is done in languages that naturally express capability patterns, namely memory-safe languages. That is, if you have a reference to an object or value, you have the authority to invoke any of the methods on that object or call any functions that accept such a value. So object references are capabilities. Most such languages only go too far by al…

And as an even deeper correspondence: Once your language is memory-safe and capability-secure, you don't even need a kernel, let alone a microkernel. Rather than use hardware address spaces to separate and modularize components (the primary idea behind microkernels), you just pass capabilities around to your components. One component can't crash the whole system, because all it can access is the APIs you pass in to i…

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 5:49 AM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #173

kjksf wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know nothing about differences between fuchsia and sel4 but it would be rather strange if something as complicated as a OS kernel wouldn't have many parts where you have to make trade-offs. People compete fiercely in the field of todo applications, I don't see why there shouldn't be competition in microkernel space. Things changed in hardware in last 20 years and maybe we've learned something about software as well…

I think author meant L4 kernels were performance tuned for 20 years to be the fastest. Then, one using applying such lessons was mathematically verified for correctness down to assembly. It's proprietary and open-source depending on what your end product will be. They'd probably even add features to it for a Google-specific version that leveraged as many proven compinents as possible.

Post by saghm » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 6:10 AM UTC

naasking wrote: post #121

Klathmon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually really beautifully simple. Thanks for this explanation, it really helped the idea "click"

And for another beautiful convergence: nowadays most software development is done in languages that naturally express capability patterns, namely memory-safe languages. That is, if you have a reference to an object or value, you have the authority to invoke any of the methods on that object or call any functions that accept such a value. So object references are capabilities. Most such languages only go too far by al…

Post by milesrout » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 6:54 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #182

milesrout wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being business-friendly is not a goal, and shouldn't be a goal.

> Being business-friendly is not a goal Sure, it is, for lots of people. Even, apparently, the FSF, hence the reason non-consumer products are not subject to anti-tivoization rules in GPLv3.

Post by qznc » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 7:09 AM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #173

kjksf wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know nothing about differences between fuchsia and sel4 but it would be rather strange if something as complicated as a OS kernel wouldn't have many parts where you have to make trade-offs. People compete fiercely in the field of todo applications, I don't see why there shouldn't be competition in microkernel space. Things changed in hardware in last 20 years and maybe we've learned something about software as well…

I think author meant L4 kernels were performance tuned for 20 years to be the fastest. Then, one using applying such lessons was mathematically verified for correctness down to assembly. It's proprietary and open-source depending on what your end product will be. They'd probably even add features to it for a Google-specific version that leveraged as many proven compinents as possible.