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Fuchsia: a new operating system

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Re: Fuchsia: a new operating system

#211

Post by jra_samba »

cobbzilla wrote: post #172
cwyers wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh. The biggest thing Linux had going for it in terms of winning market share was running on commodity x86 parts in a time period when the commercial Unices weren't touching it, and x86 made really strong gains in beating everybody else at performance per dollar.

The first time I saw Linux in a work environment was in '96 as a Samba file server on our office LAN, which was otherwise dominated by Windows NT machines. I think it was set up partly for novelty (someone wanted to play with Linux), and partly to save money on not buying one more Windows license.

Just like Linux we're (Samba) still around ：-）. Only now we can be an Active Directory Domain Controller as well as just a fileserver !

Re: Fuchsia: a new operating system

#212

Post by combatentropy »

kardianos wrote: post #5

What makes Fuchsia different then so many other attempts at writing a new OS? They aren't writing a new OS, at least, not in the complete sense. They are using the IPC system developed in and extracted from Chrome. They are drawing everything in userspace with fast graphics render but the logic for all system components written in Dart from the Flutter project. They use musl for the libc. They are using the little ke…

  > They aren't writing a new OS,
  > at least, not in the complete sense.
Neither was Linux. It was based on Unix.

Neither was Unix. "The success of UNIX lies not so much in new inventions but rather in the full exploitation of a carefully selected set of fertile ideas . . . " --- Dennis M. Ritchie and Ken Thompson, "The UNIX TimeSharing System"

Re: Fuchsia: a new operating system

#213

Post by bitmapbrother »

Klathmon wrote: post #192
bitmapbrother wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its modern rendering pipeline would suggest it has uses for far more than the embedded OS market.

I'm not so sure. Perhaps "embedded" is the wrong term, but more and more devices have full touchscreens on them, and if you are selling a high end device like a refrigerator, having the UI be fluid and feel high end is important as well. Not to mention TVs, car UIs, security system pads, and more.

Its rendering pipeline uses Vulkan which requires a very capable GPU. I'm sure you could put an expensive SoC into a refrigerator or TV, but it's going to cost you.

Re: Fuchsia: a new operating system

#214

Post by RaleyField »

jorvi wrote: post #186
deno wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not very fast, but it’s surprisingly easy on the resources, especially memory. Compare using VS Code w/ Typescript Language Service to any type of dev stack that includes the word “Scala.”

> It’s not very fast, but it’s surprisingly easy on the resources, especially memory. Open VS Code and then Sublime and be amazed. Atom and VS Code can never be 'easy on the memory' because they have to load an entire Electron instance just to idle.

> pen VS Code and then Sublime and be amazed.

At what? Using 5% more total resources? Great tradeoff!

Re: Fuchsia: a new operating system

#215

Post by swetland »

SCHiM wrote: post #22

That whole handle idea of the 'capability' system, but especially its implementation with 'handles', sounds exactly like Win32 to me. I haven't looked at the source, can anyone confirm or explain what exactly is different?

https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/magenta/+/master/docs/conce...

https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/magenta/+/master/docs/sysca...

It's early days. The API surface is still evolving.

Re: Fuchsia: a new operating system

#217

Post by krisdol »

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Fuchsia, is in fact, GNU/Fuchsia, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Fuchsia. Fuchsia is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Fuchsia”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Fuchsia, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use.

Re: Fuchsia: a new operating system

#218

Post by pjmlp »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #170
staticassertion wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't use SEL4 as an argument. It is completely unreasonable to build a production kernel the way they did - it took them ages to get what they had. Google is probably looking to develop features/ move code a lot faster than is possible using their technique. Good coding practices take no time to implement, you learn it once and you write that way. It is not bullet proof, neither are capabilities. Still, at leas…

How about Muen separation kernel in SPARK Ada with automated prover eliminating many classes of undefined behavior? Or C with tools like Frama-C and Astree Analyzer (like SPARK for C)? C++ can't reach the safety of its competition due to more complexity and less tooling.

To be fair, if Frama-C is an option, as someone on the C++ side of the fence (C vs C++) I would advocate High Integrity C++ is also an option. :)

http://www.ldra.com/en/software-quality-test-tools/group/by-...

Re: Fuchsia: a new operating system

#219

Post by devwastaken »

sethladd wrote: post #96
bitmapbrother wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason not to use Flutter? From what I've seen of Flutter it seems like a very competent cross platform UI toolkit. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they announced that you can start using Dart/Flutter to write cross platform Android/iOS apps at I/O 2017.

(disclaimer: I work on the Flutter team.) You can use Flutter today to write an app that runs on iOS and Android. :)

How is it for writing cross-platform desktop apps? There seems to be a dissapointing trend of UI toolkits only going for IOS and Android, leaving out the still very essential need of toolkits for cross-platform desktop apps in languages other than c++.

Re: Fuchsia: a new operating system

#220

Post by throwayedidqo »

Fuchsia sounds awesome. Allowing user space processes to do more of their own work frees up the kernel from providing standardized interfaces to hardware.

This makes it significantly easier to build a closed platform with unbreakable barriers between processes, and this is a great thing in terms of security and fine grained access controls for each process. Individual process isolation is extremely important for most of todays use cases where only a single user is logged into each system at one time and most running code is trusted.

In practice this means you can prevent user space processes from accessing anything you don't want them to touch while still giving them substantial low level access. This will be a boon with device makers because it allows them to preventing a users apps from compromising the carrier experience. Companies like Google will also have less concern about users installing malware like ad blockers. The movie and music industry will also greatly appreciate an operating system finally designed for 21st century IP protection. This will even be embraced by hardware manufacturers since they no longer need to provide open source drivers for their hardware that could be ported to other platforms. Overall a win-win for everybody.

In the end we can trust that this will result in a better user experience with more secure apps and devices.

Did anyone hear the whispers of Xooglers a few years back talking about "big changes" coming to Android that were absolutely horrible for users and done to placate industry? Hmmmm... This Fuscia thing looks pretty suspicious.

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