Starting a Hardware Company with $60K • Hacker News Board

Re: Starting a Hardware Company with $60K

#61

Post by elijahparker » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 1:27 AM UTC

my_username_is_ wrote: post #56

The problem with relying on "security through obscurity" for developing your initial CAD models is that you won't be able to patent these designs. You're making a public disclosure about your concept before you file, so if you intend to protect your hardware concepts through patent protection you'd be better off using something like Autodesk Inventor Fusion 360 (which is free for hobbyists, students, and even startup…

I'm using Fusion 360 and highly recommend it -- it's the first affordable/free CAD system I've actually enjoyed using. It runs on Mac and Windows.

Re: Starting a Hardware Company with $60K

#62

Post by vpontis » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 3:08 AM UTC

frakkingcylons wrote: post #57

vpontis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! Yea, as I said in the post, I think it's drastically easier to start a hardware company now vs 10 years ago. And it's still pretty hard, ha! So I can just imagine what you went through. Yep, the battery is "exposed" in that we don't have a cover over the battery. But each battery does have protection. And you aren't the target market, yet! Making cases for just iPhone made things easier, but we are hoping to…

You really need to add an email signup for people interested in CoBattery for Android. At least by the time you write the next part of your blog post.

That's a great idea!

Re: Starting a Hardware Company with $60K

#63

Post by tzs » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 3:34 AM UTC

my_username_is_ wrote: post #56

The problem with relying on "security through obscurity" for developing your initial CAD models is that you won't be able to patent these designs. You're making a public disclosure about your concept before you file, so if you intend to protect your hardware concepts through patent protection you'd be better off using something like Autodesk Inventor Fusion 360 (which is free for hobbyists, students, and even startup…

Disclosing before filing would indeed, I believe, preclude obtaining a patent in most of the world. In the US, though, there is a one year grace period after the inventor publicly discloses the invention during which that disclosure does not automatically make the invention ineligible for a patent.

Of course it would still be better to keep it private until you file, so as to not lose the possibility of patents outside the US, and so as to not subject yourself to the risk that it might take more than a year to get to the point that you are ready to file.

Re: Starting a Hardware Company with $60K

#64

Post by tzs » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 3:41 AM UTC

rebootthesystem wrote: post #32

slededit wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to do FCC testing if you don't have an oscillator.

This device should have a switching regulator in order to manage the variable voltage coming out of the battery to then power the phone, which means FCC testing is required. Generally speaking testing labs will run a series of common tests that satisfy the various regulatory agencies. In other words, you don't have to run four separate sets of tests to obtain UL, FCC, CE and TUV. I've done this dozens of times over t…

It should be noted that if they don't themselves design any of the modules that would require certification, but instead just use already certified third party modules, that greatly reduces the amount of testing their product needs.

I've read that can get the cost of FCC certification down $1-2k and the certification time us under 5 days.

If you design your own module, then it is $7-20k, and will take 4-6 weeks. (Once you've certified that, though, then if you reuse that same module in other products it is like using a third party certified module, so $1-2k for each subsequent product).

Re: Starting a Hardware Company with $60K

#65

Post by syntaxing » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 3:59 AM UTC

Hmm, the post shows that the case was designed in OnShape but the screenshot shows that's its an imported STEP file from Solidworks(?). Admittedly though, I haven't used OnShape since they removed the private project options so I might be wrong.

Understandably, OnShape and Fusion360 (the HSMWorks/CAM integration in it is awesome.) is great for startups and hobbyist. But if you're trying to design some large assemblies or things with complex organic shapes, Solidworks is significantly superior in every way (I'm extremely bias since Solidworks is my favorite CAD software). I know the price is a lot for a startup but I highly recommend any company trying to get into the hardware side of things, to stick with the "foundational" CAD software because in the current CAD software landscape, the investment into these software would pay off in less than a year.

Re: Starting a Hardware Company with $60K

#66

Post by somesaba » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 4:46 AM UTC

Thanks for writing this, the post is super helpful! I didn't see anything about the circuit design/iteration process. Would be great to hear what software was used to design the circuit (if any) and how that eventually translates to mass production.

Re: Starting a Hardware Company with $60K

#67

Post by vpontis » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 5:47 AM UTC

somesaba wrote: post #66

Thanks for writing this, the post is super helpful! I didn't see anything about the circuit design/iteration process. Would be great to hear what software was used to design the circuit (if any) and how that eventually translates to mass production.

The circuit is actually really simple in our case. It is just a voltage converter and then an adapter for the lightning connector.

Getting the custom lightning connector and chip was more of an ordeal though! I'll see what I can dredge up on that process.

Re: Starting a Hardware Company with $60K

#68

Post by vpontis » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 5:49 AM UTC

syntaxing wrote: post #65

Hmm, the post shows that the case was designed in OnShape but the screenshot shows that's its an imported STEP file from Solidworks(?). Admittedly though, I haven't used OnShape since they removed the private project options so I might be wrong. Understandably, OnShape and Fusion360 (the HSMWorks/CAM integration in it is awesome.) is great for startups and hobbyist. But if you're trying to design some large assemblie…

Wow, you paid attention to the details! Yea, the screenshot was just for the purpose of the post.

We did some of the original design in OnShape and some of it in SolidWorks. I didn't want to recommend SolidWorks for cheap work because at the time we only got it free because we were students.

We've found that it isn't that hard to start off a design in OnShape and then move it into SolidWorks as things get more complicated. It isn't ideal, but it's definitely cheaper.

Re: Starting a Hardware Company with $60K

#69

Post by vpontis » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 5:51 AM UTC

htima wrote: post #42

vpontis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What!? Giraffes are awesome... We have found the metal connector to be pretty resistant. But we have one year full warranty, so if anything breaks for any reason we will send you a replacement immediately. :)

Can you write more about how you provide a warranty? Is it simply guessing x% of the products will fail within the warranty period and set aside some money to cover those failures. Or is it more complicated?

Hmmm, it's actually much more simple than that. We want to provide a good product that makes people's lives better. The warranty is a forcing function.

In my opinion, if we can't make money while ensuring people's CoBattery cases works, we shouldn't be in business.

Re: Starting a Hardware Company with $60K

#70

Post by vpontis » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 5:52 AM UTC

rebootthesystem wrote: post #23

You need to put this through UL, FCC, CE and TUV testing before selling it. Depending on where you intend to sell it you might need to pay for acceptance of the above certificates. For example, Brazil has it's own certifications but they will accept CE for a fee, etc. Have you gone through compliance testing?

Our batteries come with some compliance testing. I'm not sure what other testing we have done for other components. But the batteries are the important one.