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Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

theatlantic.com

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Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#11

Post by accountface »

KaiserPro wrote: post #7

Sigh The Trolls have been with the internet from the start. I would say that actually they are mostly contained (why? because its really fucking difficult to be anonymous. Plus you are more than likely to be prosecuted for whatever you've done) So whats changed? more people are on platforms like twitter, and seem to think that fake internet points are real. The vast majority of "trolling" is pretty low grade "die", "…

On the contrary... these trolls have SWATted, stalked, ddos'd, called, doxxed, and harassed normal people.

They've spammed business, social media accounts, email...

For some people the impact on their life is very real.

I can't use my name publicly on the internet because of trolls. This impacts my life in a huge way.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#12

Post by clock_tower »

thinkmilitant wrote: post #5
alexkavon wrote: post #2

Trolls were always winning the internet. From "RTFM" attitudes to anonymous user accounts. It's a troll playground. Don't get me wrong the internet was built to be/can be an incredible tool, but let's not misconstrue this is a new trend. EDIT: I find the issue with the candor on the internet is lack of context 90% of the time.

I agree. It seems to me that the biggest difference is the extent to which the average internet user gets his content from other internet users (reddit, facebook, twitter, etc) instead of designated content creators with reputations to uphold.

Isn't this the applied form of the Global Village nonsense from back in the '90s? I'm sure I've seen positively-spun descriptions of the process you describe.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#13

Post by wvenable »

The real problem is that bytes are effectively free. Here I am, using up your bytes right now. Using up the bytes on Hacker news. The only limit is my own time, effort, and energy.

You think this means that we're all equal; we all have equal access to sharing bytes. But the problem is that trolls have infinite time and energy to post bytes. They have significantly more power and influence than you do because of that simple fact. Trolls could, if they wanted, completely bring down hacker news with just endless content and it would be near impossible to stop.

I've had to deal with real determined trolls on some of my own sites that simply have infinite time to post, to write code to post, to obfuscate themselves -- a single troll can shout out dozens to hundreds of other people. This is why the trolls are winning.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#14

Post by alphonsegaston »

Is this really a problem of technology though? Seems more the artifact of a modern culture so predicated on con-artistry and spectacle, that abuse and manipulation have become the dominant form of expression.

Technology makes this easier for sure. But I think it's the futureless world of hucksterism being articulated to everyone that makes behaving this way attractive to so many people.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#15

Post by the_af »

alexkavon wrote: post #2

Trolls were always winning the internet. From "RTFM" attitudes to anonymous user accounts. It's a troll playground. Don't get me wrong the internet was built to be/can be an incredible tool, but let's not misconstrue this is a new trend. EDIT: I find the issue with the candor on the internet is lack of context 90% of the time.

> From "RTFM" attitudes

While agree some internet users are a bit too gung-ho with RTFM, I think it's unfair to lump them with trolls. While veterans can be harsh and unfriendly, the RTFM response is often warranted (though, again, it could be phrased more nicely -- and the default assumption should be that the person seeking help is well-intentioned). Otherwise, many online communities would be completely overrun by people demanding help with minimum effort on their part.

"RTFM" is not trollish behavior, because trolls have a different goal: to disrupt communities, start flamewars and generally annoy the hell out of people. It's not merely being "unfriendly"; in fact some trolls fake cluelesness instead of anger.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#16

Post by Edmond »

pcmaffey wrote: post #10

Trolling is the new spam. Except trolls want your attention, not your money. People said the same thing about spam. And it's largely been defeated (or institutionalized, whichever way you want to look at). We're all still figuring out the dynamics of the attention economy... and I imagine that as we do, we'll find ways to minimize the impact of trolling. I'd venture to say that that's the big lesson we have to learn…

There are folks like us working on this: https://www.cipheredtrust.com/

The trick is a scalable means to do identity verification on the internet...basically a way to do it that preserves user privacy and security and it is dirt cheap so everyone can leverage it.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#17

Post by KaiserPro »

accountface wrote: post #11
KaiserPro wrote: post #7

Sigh The Trolls have been with the internet from the start. I would say that actually they are mostly contained (why? because its really fucking difficult to be anonymous. Plus you are more than likely to be prosecuted for whatever you've done) So whats changed? more people are on platforms like twitter, and seem to think that fake internet points are real. The vast majority of "trolling" is pretty low grade "die", "…

On the contrary... these trolls have SWATted, stalked, ddos'd, called, doxxed, and harassed normal people. They've spammed business, social media accounts, email... For some people the impact on their life is very real. I can't use my name publicly on the internet because of trolls. This impacts my life in a huge way.

Yes, I should have made that clear.

you were trolled, and it is clearly devastating. What most people think of trolling is just someone shouting WANKER at the screen.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#18

Post by problems »

accountface wrote: post #11
KaiserPro wrote: post #7

Sigh The Trolls have been with the internet from the start. I would say that actually they are mostly contained (why? because its really fucking difficult to be anonymous. Plus you are more than likely to be prosecuted for whatever you've done) So whats changed? more people are on platforms like twitter, and seem to think that fake internet points are real. The vast majority of "trolling" is pretty low grade "die", "…

On the contrary... these trolls have SWATted, stalked, ddos'd, called, doxxed, and harassed normal people. They've spammed business, social media accounts, email... For some people the impact on their life is very real. I can't use my name publicly on the internet because of trolls. This impacts my life in a huge way.

I hate this attitude of "blame everything on the trolls". You can't use your real name on the internet because using your real name on the internet is basically asking for trouble. You have to defend yourself in the same way you have to look at ads and read media critically and don't believe everything someone says on the phone or in the mail. It's really nothing new, it's just on the internet this time. Scamming and spectacle has always been a good play.

People are simply not trustworthy, especially in large numbers, the internet just provides more exposure, so "don't be dumb" applies even more. Defending yourself is simply part of living in society.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#19

Post by rakoo »

KaiserPro wrote: post #7

Sigh The Trolls have been with the internet from the start. I would say that actually they are mostly contained (why? because its really fucking difficult to be anonymous. Plus you are more than likely to be prosecuted for whatever you've done) So whats changed? more people are on platforms like twitter, and seem to think that fake internet points are real. The vast majority of "trolling" is pretty low grade "die", "…

> So whats changed?

Eternal September ? As access got more and more widespread, the average savviness of new entrants lowered and they became more and more susceptible to the permanent trolling ? In turn, the new entrants have a bigger voice outside of the internet, and their parole is taken with more value than those who roamed it from the beginning, unmoved by the usual trolling ?

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#20

Post by KaiserPro »

JacksonGariety wrote: post #8
KaiserPro wrote: post #7

Sigh The Trolls have been with the internet from the start. I would say that actually they are mostly contained (why? because its really fucking difficult to be anonymous. Plus you are more than likely to be prosecuted for whatever you've done) So whats changed? more people are on platforms like twitter, and seem to think that fake internet points are real. The vast majority of "trolling" is pretty low grade "die", "…

I'd say it has a pretty profound impact on your life: share personal information online, get 'trolled', and then watch that encounter become permanently associated with your name.

I could have explained it better, but what people call trolling, and actual trolling are two different things.

Apparently posting a link in reply to someone is now "trolling"

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