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Verizon announces plans to install a download-tracking app on its Android phones

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Re: Verizon announces plans to install a download-tracking app on its Android phones

#91

Post by M_Grey »

rsync wrote: post #85
Taek wrote: post #54

Between the Google play store, Android's general insecurity, and now cell carriers actively pushing spyware, what alternatives exist? And please don't say iOS. It's closed source, which means we really don't know what's going on under the hood. We may trust it today, but one secret court order + an overnight update is all we need to lose everything with iOS. Apple execs may not even be made aware of such an update if…

"Between the Google play store, Android's general insecurity, and now cell carriers actively pushing spyware, what alternatives exist?" There are no alternatives until we have an open baseband. Every objection you state in your comment about android (and iOS) is dwarfed by the objections you would have if you truly understood the two other general purpose computers inside your phone that you have no control over - na…

I just use my cell phone as a phone... just a phone (it's not a smartphone); the rest I do on a device that isn't networked. The convenience of a smartphone comes with far too many hooks in my opinion.

Re: Verizon announces plans to install a download-tracking app on its Android phones

#92

Post by paulgb »

ChrisLTD wrote: post #80
paulgb wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app store is Apple's way of selling out access to their customers, it just happens to be to developers instead of advertisers. I use Android and iOS so I don't have a horse in the race, but it's disengenous to claim that Apple's business model makes it any more your device than Apple's.

App Store revenue is a drop in the bucket for Apple. The App Store's raison d'être is to drive more hardware sales.

That's not what apple tells shareholders:

http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/17/02/01/see-how-app...

Re: Verizon announces plans to install a download-tracking app on its Android phones

#93

Post by [deleted] »

ChrisLTD wrote: post #80
paulgb wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app store is Apple's way of selling out access to their customers, it just happens to be to developers instead of advertisers. I use Android and iOS so I don't have a horse in the race, but it's disengenous to claim that Apple's business model makes it any more your device than Apple's.

App Store revenue is a drop in the bucket for Apple. The App Store's raison d'être is to drive more hardware sales.

[deleted]

Re: Verizon announces plans to install a download-tracking app on its Android phones

#94

Post by [deleted] »

ChrisLTD wrote: post #80
paulgb wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app store is Apple's way of selling out access to their customers, it just happens to be to developers instead of advertisers. I use Android and iOS so I don't have a horse in the race, but it's disengenous to claim that Apple's business model makes it any more your device than Apple's.

App Store revenue is a drop in the bucket for Apple. The App Store's raison d'être is to drive more hardware sales.

[deleted]

Re: Verizon announces plans to install a download-tracking app on its Android phones

#95

Post by forgotmysn »

js2 wrote: post #89
Taek wrote: post #54

Between the Google play store, Android's general insecurity, and now cell carriers actively pushing spyware, what alternatives exist? And please don't say iOS. It's closed source, which means we really don't know what's going on under the hood. We may trust it today, but one secret court order + an overnight update is all we need to lose everything with iOS. Apple execs may not even be made aware of such an update if…

"There are no secure smartphones" 374 points, 441 days ago, 118 comments. Note the discussion about baseband. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10905643

Is the blackphone not secure? I ask this out of genuine ignorance

https://www.silentcircle.com/products-and-solutions/devices/

Re: Verizon announces plans to install a download-tracking app on its Android phones

#96

Post by austenallred »

Taek wrote: post #54

Between the Google play store, Android's general insecurity, and now cell carriers actively pushing spyware, what alternatives exist? And please don't say iOS. It's closed source, which means we really don't know what's going on under the hood. We may trust it today, but one secret court order + an overnight update is all we need to lose everything with iOS. Apple execs may not even be made aware of such an update if…

If you use wireless data it doesn't matter; the carriers sell everything you do anyway

Re: Verizon announces plans to install a download-tracking app on its Android phones

#97

Post by londons_explore »

natdempk wrote: post #86
rsync wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Between the Google play store, Android's general insecurity, and now cell carriers actively pushing spyware, what alternatives exist?" There are no alternatives until we have an open baseband. Every objection you state in your comment about android (and iOS) is dwarfed by the objections you would have if you truly understood the two other general purpose computers inside your phone that you have no control over - na…

How does iOS and the iPhone handle this SIM card/baseband processor issue? Is there an article that details the exact threat model and defenses in place?

iOS uses Qualcomm and Intel chipsets for basebands.

For Qualcomm at least, they share a lot of code with Android, and nearly all the code is fully closed source, even to Apple engineers building the phone above.

Note that code does everything from camera autofocus to doing NAT for tethering, to audio decoding while the CPU is sleeping, to setting up the GPU, to handling supercomplex GSM protocols, to determining USB charging current and serial debug interfaces. It is probably more complex than the whole of the rest of the OS.

Looking at the quality of open source code from Qualcomm, I have nearly zero confidence in the security of that baseband. I'm confident you could find an "accidentally" open debug interface within a few days of looking.

Re: Verizon announces plans to install a download-tracking app on its Android phones

#98

Post by matt_wulfeck »

_jal wrote: post #72
cdurth wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, it is very ignorant to think they are not getting the data from apple. They just have the ability to openly do it on their own with android.

If you can demonstrate that, you could use that knowledge to make a ton of money in various ways. If you can't, bluntly, you're blowing smoke. Which is it?

The FBI paid $1 million to "get the data from apple", and that was a phone that was several generations of hardware and software security updates old. If you have a magical iPhone exploit, there are people who will pay you a lot of money.

Re: Verizon announces plans to install a download-tracking app on its Android phones

#99

Post by mahyarm »

Datenstrom wrote: post #90
pgrote wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am ignorant of how this connects to a carrier. Will it work on Verizon's network? Can Verizon install something once it is connected?

It will work, right now it only supports a few phones (Nexus 9 WiFi, Nexus 5X, Nexus 6P) with the Pixel and Pixel XL on the way. I don't have a supported phone currently so I haven't been able to test it out but any phone that is capable of connecting to Verizon's network hardware wise should be able to connect using any OS that implements the necessary protocols. The Pixel and Pixel XL use nano SIM cards to connect…

That document doesnt have the word baseband on it. I'm guessing they dont do anything about it?

Re: Verizon announces plans to install a download-tracking app on its Android phones

#100

Post by ocdtrekkie »

chrisper wrote: post #57
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably that since Apple directly controls it's software updates, that this sort of thing doesn't occur on their platform.

Well, if you buy an unlocked phone, then it won't happen to you either. That's why I bought the Pixel from the Google Store and not through a carrier.

Are you sure? It seems like Android 6.0 and up has features to allow carriers to deploy code to devices with their SIM cards: https://source.android.com/devices/tech/config/carrier.html

I am honestly unsure of the limits on this feature.

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