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MBAs as CEOs

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Re: MBAs as CEOs

#31

Post by maxxxxx »

simonsarris wrote: post #3

I know its popular to hate on Peter Thiel here but I think he's been right about this cohort for a long time, and that its not really surprising. Emphasis mine: > I think one challenge a lot of the business schools have is they end up attracting students who are very extroverted and have very low conviction, and they put them in this hot house environment for a few years — at the end of which, a large number of peopl…

"very extroverted and have very low conviction"

I see that a lot in middle management in my company. There is this whole layer of people who are really good at going along with trends but can't make up their mind when hard decisions have to be made. As soon as someone else makes that decision they jump on the bandwagon again and take credit. It seems a really good way to climb the corporate ladder.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#32

Post by alphonsegaston »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #12
alphonsegaston wrote: post #10

I think it's more useful to think of MBAs as ordination into something like the Jesuits of American Corporatism. Late Capitalism in the US has evolved in such an obviously unequal and environmentally dangerous way that the only recourse we have is to a kind of "mystical" rhetoric. In this kind of system, being some kind of guru is just as important, if not more, than one's actual business acumen. Hence all the TED ta…

That's spot on and incredibly unsettling. I come from a conservative religious background and I'm genuinely creeped out by the mythologies that surround companies. I think there are a ton of parallels between today's business leaders and megachurch pastors. There's similarities in the way they build brands, the way followers reverently speak of them, assume they do no wrong, are willing to defend them, and the cognit…

Look into Amway - that's where a lot of this ideology was first cultivated. They literally took American Christianity, substituted an ambiguous notion of "business" with God, and pyramid schemed their way to immense wealth and political power. They also pioneered selling business sermons (in the form of cassette tape sets) long before this whole social media deluge of similar nonsense.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#33

Post by sjg007 »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #12
alphonsegaston wrote: post #10

I think it's more useful to think of MBAs as ordination into something like the Jesuits of American Corporatism. Late Capitalism in the US has evolved in such an obviously unequal and environmentally dangerous way that the only recourse we have is to a kind of "mystical" rhetoric. In this kind of system, being some kind of guru is just as important, if not more, than one's actual business acumen. Hence all the TED ta…

That's spot on and incredibly unsettling. I come from a conservative religious background and I'm genuinely creeped out by the mythologies that surround companies. I think there are a ton of parallels between today's business leaders and megachurch pastors. There's similarities in the way they build brands, the way followers reverently speak of them, assume they do no wrong, are willing to defend them, and the cognit…

I was always told that the MBA is about the network. Someone in your cohort has a friend who gets you your next job. And there is also some diversity in the class since everyone worked for a few years prior to taking an MBA.

The network effect is very important. It allows you to grow and to attract smart ambitious people to your own adventure.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#34

Post by based_log »

ziszis wrote: post #4

Google CEO Sundar Pichai has an MBA. Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella has an MBA. AWS CEO Andrew Jassy has an MBA, etc. It is easy to undervalue marketing, sales, financial and other non-technical skills. There are definitely terrible MBAs, but also amazing ones.

Jeff Bezos is also an MBA, though I do concur with they guy who said all those people have MBAs in addition to engineering training.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#35

Post by GlennS »

thegoldenchild wrote: post #25

I'm aware that HN is a pro-engineering, anti-MBA group of folks, but hopefully my perspective helps add a bit of color from the other side. I got a BS and MS in Computer Science and ended up working as a software engineer for a number of years. After a while, I was left wanting more, so I enrolled in an MBA program. IMO, 50-60% of classes in business school are fluff leadership rah-rah self-development bullshit. But…

Could you summarise some of the 40% that was useful? Might be interesting to hear.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#36

Post by treebeard901 »

sjg007 wrote: post #33
aaron-lebo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's spot on and incredibly unsettling. I come from a conservative religious background and I'm genuinely creeped out by the mythologies that surround companies. I think there are a ton of parallels between today's business leaders and megachurch pastors. There's similarities in the way they build brands, the way followers reverently speak of them, assume they do no wrong, are willing to defend them, and the cognit…

I was always told that the MBA is about the network. Someone in your cohort has a friend who gets you your next job. And there is also some diversity in the class since everyone worked for a few years prior to taking an MBA. The network effect is very important. It allows you to grow and to attract smart ambitious people to your own adventure.

Oddly enough, I know many people who privately admit this is the main reason they go to church: networking.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#37

Post by mdorazio »

thegoldenchild wrote: post #25

I'm aware that HN is a pro-engineering, anti-MBA group of folks, but hopefully my perspective helps add a bit of color from the other side. I got a BS and MS in Computer Science and ended up working as a software engineer for a number of years. After a while, I was left wanting more, so I enrolled in an MBA program. IMO, 50-60% of classes in business school are fluff leadership rah-rah self-development bullshit. But…

Of the "valuable" set of classes, what % would you have only been able to attend/learn from in an MBA program? I was accepted to several top MBA programs and decided not to go for a variety of reasons, including that virtually all of the classwork was things I had already learned or could easily learn via online coursework or community college without spending a quarter of a million dollars.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#38

Post by sacheendra »

thegoldenchild wrote: post #25

I'm aware that HN is a pro-engineering, anti-MBA group of folks, but hopefully my perspective helps add a bit of color from the other side. I got a BS and MS in Computer Science and ended up working as a software engineer for a number of years. After a while, I was left wanting more, so I enrolled in an MBA program. IMO, 50-60% of classes in business school are fluff leadership rah-rah self-development bullshit. But…

While MBAs might learn stuff like budgeting, recruiting, etc. Are they going to better at doing this than an accountant or a professional recruiter? Is this the additional value they add when the join a company?

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#39

Post by ajmurmann »

maxxxxx wrote: post #31
simonsarris wrote: post #3

I know its popular to hate on Peter Thiel here but I think he's been right about this cohort for a long time, and that its not really surprising. Emphasis mine: > I think one challenge a lot of the business schools have is they end up attracting students who are very extroverted and have very low conviction, and they put them in this hot house environment for a few years — at the end of which, a large number of peopl…

"very extroverted and have very low conviction" I see that a lot in middle management in my company. There is this whole layer of people who are really good at going along with trends but can't make up their mind when hard decisions have to be made. As soon as someone else makes that decision they jump on the bandwagon again and take credit. It seems a really good way to climb the corporate ladder.

I wouldn't necessarily explain this by properties of the individual middle manager. Middle management frequently had very little decision making power and it's their job to represent "the company's" decisions to their reports. In many organizations they are also heavily discouraged from taking any risks and frequently function as scape goats for bad decisions higher ups made. So even if someone in middle management seems bad at making decisions it might not be because they don't have a strong opinion but because they aren't sure if it clashes with what their boss wants and are unsure how far they can push it. They also might be turn to maybe do what they think is the wrong thing because they know it will be accepted by the organization. They also might seem to be slow or hesitant making decisions when it's in fact someone above them they are waiting for. Middle management is easily blamed, but they are also the ones who get to feel most when an organization is dysfunctional because they sit between the people who make the real decisions and between the people who are doing the ground work.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#40

Post by sjg007 »

mdorazio wrote: post #37
thegoldenchild wrote: post #25

I'm aware that HN is a pro-engineering, anti-MBA group of folks, but hopefully my perspective helps add a bit of color from the other side. I got a BS and MS in Computer Science and ended up working as a software engineer for a number of years. After a while, I was left wanting more, so I enrolled in an MBA program. IMO, 50-60% of classes in business school are fluff leadership rah-rah self-development bullshit. But…

Of the "valuable" set of classes, what % would you have only been able to attend/learn from in an MBA program? I was accepted to several top MBA programs and decided not to go for a variety of reasons, including that virtually all of the classwork was things I had already learned or could easily learn via online coursework or community college without spending a quarter of a million dollars.

You go for the network either regional or national. You can read the 30m MBA for the other stuff.
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