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What’s so bad about Scientism?

philpapers.org

21–30 of 95 posts

Re: What’s so bad about Scientism?

#21
post #6

Of all the fads and foibles in the long history of human credulity, scientism in all its varied guises — from fanciful cosmology to evolutionary epistemology and ethics — seems among the more dangerous, both because it pretends to be something very different from what it really is and because it has been accorded widespread and uncritical adherence. Continued insistence on the universal competence of science will ser…

> Strong Scientism: Of all the knowledge we have, scientific knowledge is the only “real knowledge.” Stupid question. What is an example of a hypothesis that is not falsifiable by experiment but should still be considered "knowledge"?

This is not an answer to your exact question, but when people say "falsifiable" they usually mean something much more rigorous than what is possible within qualitative research[0] (and I'm not criticising qualitative research here), yet insights can still be gained from it.

I switched from physics to art to (ultimately) design and programming. You have no idea how much ignorance many physicists have of research that isn't easily quantifiable and turned into predictive formulas. I had to go through a period of growing more "aware" of my tunnel-vision myself. As a result, flat-out rejection of entire fields of research, claiming they do not create "real" knowledge is common.

On the flipside there's people trying to apply physics-style reductionism to problems that simply don't fit, because human societies aren't built up of spherical frictionless humans in a vacuum[1].

Example: I did my master thesis of interaction design on gesture interfaces (the waving-hands-in-the-air kind, not the touchscreen kind), a topic that has been researched over forty years but has yet to really break through. One paper I read mentioned that on average the right index finger was raised one-point-zero-something times more often than the left. Sample size twenty or so. I still don't know how that is supposed to help me design better interfaces; right-handedness being the norm is a known, and I cannot conclude anything from these numbers. But hey, it's quantified and measured, therefore "proper" knowledge!

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualitative_research

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_cow

Re: What’s so bad about Scientism?

#22
post #15
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my view, the whole concept of scientism is the last attempt of philosophy to stay relevant, and it's usually only backed up by appeals to emotion and loaded words. So, the scientist in me asks: what areas of knowledge are out of the scope of science and the scientific method?

What areas of knowledge are out of the scope of science and the scientific method? Um philosophy.....

Is philosophy knowledge? Can I use it, for example, to take an informed choice about the real world? Does it at least contain a set of verifiable, falsifiable statements that every practitioner can and has agreed upon?

Re: What’s so bad about Scientism?

#23
post #17
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1+1=2 And no, apples are not the same things as numbers.

That's an axiom. It doesn't say anything about the real world, it just introduces a framework of thought. In other words, if you can imagine a reality where 1+1=2 for some meaning of '1', '2', '+' and '=', then a series of conclusions will hold true.

But all that says is that 1+1=2 is too obvious. How about some other, less straightforward mathematical theorem, then, like Fermat's Last Theorem.

You can hardly accuse that of being an axiom, or just introducing frameworks of thought.

Re: What’s so bad about Scientism?

#24
By “scientism,” Pigliucci (2010, p. 235) means, “the intellectual arrogance of some scientists who think that, given enough time and especially financial resources, science will be able to answer whatever meaningful questions we may wish to pose—from a cure for cancer to the elusive equation that will tell us how the laws of nature themselves came about”

Hm. Is it possible to construct a (sensible) physical correspondence to the incompleteness theorem or to an undecidable problem?

Re: What’s so bad about Scientism?

#25
post #17
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1+1=2 And no, apples are not the same things as numbers.

That's an axiom. It doesn't say anything about the real world, it just introduces a framework of thought. In other words, if you can imagine a reality where 1+1=2 for some meaning of '1', '2', '+' and '=', then a series of conclusions will hold true.

It's not an axiom, it's a theorem (or maybe a definition of "2"). The more usual definition of "2" is "S(S(0))" (the successor of the successor of zero). "1" is "S(0)". "S(0) + S(0) = S(S(0))" is a theorem, a consequence of the axioms "for all x and y, x + S(y) = S(x + y)" and "for all x, x + 0 = x".

Re: What’s so bad about Scientism?

#26
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you go about testing the hypothesis that 1 + 1 = 2? Not just showing that a particular physical representation obeys the logical laws of arithmetic, but to test the actual laws themselves.

The point is that it's not a hypothesis. Or, at least there are views about maths where it's not a hypothesis.

So it's something that's not a scientific hypothesis, but is considered knowledge!

(Or, if as in the other comment chain, 1+1=2 is too obvious, you can take any sufficiently non-trivial theorem of your choosing).

Re: What’s so bad about Scientism?

#27
post #22
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What areas of knowledge are out of the scope of science and the scientific method? Um philosophy.....

Is philosophy knowledge? Can I use it, for example, to take an informed choice about the real world? Does it at least contain a set of verifiable, falsifiable statements that every practitioner can and has agreed upon?

Surely philosophy of science helps you build your framework of verifiable, falsifiable statements (after all, you need to have a logical framework for choosing which statements can be falsified or verified)!

Re: What’s so bad about Scientism?

#28
post #12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever we need to take for granted in order for a scientific experiment to mean anything at all. Most of mathematics and logic would fall into this category: we can't falsify 1 + 1 = 2 by experiment, but if we throw it out, we won't have any science at all. A lot of people believe that fundamental principles of ethics also belong there. For example, we may be able to demonstrate whether or not something is a net be…

1+1=2 is falsifiable as it relates to an experiment. You could show that in an experiment that when you "add" a "one" and another "one" together you do not get "two". If it doesn't aid in understanding the world then I'm not sure it qualifies as knowledge.

When you add 1kg of some stuff to 1kg of another stuff and end up with 1.97kg instead of 2kg, have you really falsified 1 + 1 = 2, or have you just confirmed that some portion of your material was vaporized in the reaction?

What does the number 1.97 even mean in a world where 1 + 1 ≠ 2? When you falsify 1 + 1 = 2, you also end up denying the validity of the very experiment that you used in the process. If a hypothesis can only be falsified by self-invalidating experiments, does it count as falsifiable?

Re: What’s so bad about Scientism?

#29
post #19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What areas of knowledge are out of the scope of science and the scientific method? Um philosophy.....

Large areas of philosophy are routinely demolished by the strangeness revealed by science. Concepts like Time after general relativity, the reach of maths after Godel, existence being coexistence after the discovery of multiverses. Philosophy very often assumes things that the real world ends up proving aren't true.

Are you sure you're not just more familiar with science than with philosophy? I don't think any of those examples hold up under the slightest scrutiny. Philosophy is mostly demolished by better philosophy.

Re: What’s so bad about Scientism?

#30
post #19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What areas of knowledge are out of the scope of science and the scientific method? Um philosophy.....

Large areas of philosophy are routinely demolished by the strangeness revealed by science. Concepts like Time after general relativity, the reach of maths after Godel, existence being coexistence after the discovery of multiverses. Philosophy very often assumes things that the real world ends up proving aren't true.

> discovery of multiverses

Theorization of multiverses...

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