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Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered

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Re: Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered

#241

Post by Johnny_Brahms »

idanoeman wrote: post #212
Johnny_Brahms wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same goes for Telegram. The android client hasn't seen any updates to it's github repo since sep 2016. And, it is quite easy to verify that WhatsApp's encryption is doing what we think. A friend of mine managed to reverse engineer their protocol in 2012 in less than 24 hours, by himself. And there is quite a big chunk of the computer security market that would disagree with the claim that something has to be open…

Couldn't WhatsApp faithfully implement the protocol, but also keylog and phone home occasionally? How would you know?

Sure, but then again so could Telegram. It's a rather fruitless discussion.

Re: Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered

#242

Post by jyrkesh »

kiriakasis wrote: post #59
unicornporn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come https://riot.im (Matrix) manages to sync between devices AND have E2E, while also being federated? That's not what you get when you have a secure system, that's what you get when you design a system that can collect (and possibly monetize) the data of millions of users.

I believe that making sync work with E2E bring either security issues or more burden on the user; I would like them in telegram, but I also like the "if you send this message you exactly the device it go to, not an old laptop i forgot in the office, just my phone". it is meant to be secure on a device level.

Yeah, you'd have to manually put your private keys onto your computer from your phone.

Re: Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered

#243

Post by JshWright »

walterbell wrote: post #197
JshWright wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, here are a couple papers on the topic: https://www.cs.jhu.edu/~cwright/oakland08.pdf https://www.cs.jhu.edu/~cwright/voip-vbr.pdf It's fundamentally very similar to the sorts of issues you end up with if you compress then encrypt. If the attacker can make some educated guesses about the plaintext prior to the compression, the compression ratio can be a very powerful tool in their arsenal.

Wire implemented CBR for their encrypted calls, upstreamed it to WebRTC and submitted a patch to Signal, https://medium.com/wire-news/call-security-constant-bit-rate...

Silent Phone has used CBR since day 1.

Re: Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered

#244

Post by notspanishflu »

CaptSpify wrote: post #229
notspanishflu wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using an Ubuntu Phone and Telegram is the only native messaging service app in it. I'm using UP for a beta-testing purpose so no big deal.

Really? I just get a white screen on mine. I see from reviews that others have the same problem. I've never looked into logs though, so a fix might be obvious

Really. I got 99 ubuntu bugs but Telegram ain't one.

Once in a while I got a blank screen opening Telegram, but closing it and open it again solves the problem.

Are you running OTA-15?

Re: Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered

#245

Post by ecthiender »

cyphunk wrote: post #209
stouset wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't personally reviewed it, but based on their previous inability to make principled cryptographic choices and resistance to critical feedback from actual cryptographers… I'm skeptical.

can you point to some examples where the resisted critical feedback? I've heard people mention this but haven't actually seen anything convincing yet

Read up the comments on the telegram announcement post here on HN. From couple of years back, IIRC.

PS: on mobile. Could not.search.

Re: Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered

#246

Post by r3bl »

RubyPinch wrote: post #192
_jomo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have stopped publishing the source code for their clients.

They have? https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop seems fairly up to date?

Latest commit on the Android version was six months ago: https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram

And yes, that's the official location of the Android app, linked here: https://telegram.org/apps

Re: Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered

#247

Post by 77pt77 »

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #121

I will definitely try this because I have trouble with all other voice chat services including Skype, WhatsApp and Hangouts. Often one of those three will work but not always. But the most annoying problem with any internet voice chat is not so much the quality but the latency. Landline phones have noticeably lower voice quality but one can still enjoy a conversation perfectly well. High latency, on the other hand, a…

Try using Skype over a 3G connection.

The latency is almost palpable.

Re: Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered

#248

Post by 77pt77 »

l1ambda wrote: post #217
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #121

I will definitely try this because I have trouble with all other voice chat services including Skype, WhatsApp and Hangouts. Often one of those three will work but not always. But the most annoying problem with any internet voice chat is not so much the quality but the latency. Landline phones have noticeably lower voice quality but one can still enjoy a conversation perfectly well. High latency, on the other hand, a…

The Opus codec ( http://opus-codec.org/comparison/ ) can enable very low latency audio. 26.5 ms algorithmic delay (the time it takes to go through the algorithm) by default, but can be set to a very impressive 5ms. Digital audio can't achieve the near no-latency analog POTS has, but it can get pretty darn close e.g. if Opus is used in the very low latency mode. I believe Mumble and maybe TeamSpeak let you choose the…

> I know some other apps like WhatsApp, Wire, and Signal use Opus as well

Opus is an evolution of SILK which is/was used in Skype.

Re: Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered

#249

Post by dredmorbius »

Animats wrote: post #210
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #121

I will definitely try this because I have trouble with all other voice chat services including Skype, WhatsApp and Hangouts. Often one of those three will work but not always. But the most annoying problem with any internet voice chat is not so much the quality but the latency. Landline phones have noticeably lower voice quality but one can still enjoy a conversation perfectly well. High latency, on the other hand, a…

The best phone voice quality is still ISDN. Digital all the way to the handset, and rigidly clocked with fixed delay. Switzerland has ISDN phones, and the voice quality is impressive.

I've noticed digital artifacting on radio broadcasts, particularly in rebroadcasting programmes from earlier in the day.

I've experienced this with multiple NPR affiliate stations where it's particularly noticeable for their generally high audio quality.

My suspicion is that audio is recorded with different codecs or at different bitrates, though I've never been able to establish this.

I've also not noted the problem for a few years, so it may have been addressed.

Re: Voice Calls: Secure, Crystal-Clear, AI-Powered

#250

Post by idanoeman »

Johnny_Brahms wrote: post #241
idanoeman wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't WhatsApp faithfully implement the protocol, but also keylog and phone home occasionally? How would you know?

Sure, but then again so could Telegram. It's a rather fruitless discussion.

No it's not. The fruit is: use a sideloaded Signal which you built yourself if you really need to be secure. If you're not, Signal is still better than Telegram or Whatsapp.
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