New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year • Hacker News Board

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#291

Post by mrkgnao » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 4:28 AM UTC

chongli wrote: post #190

colanderman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's adversarial thinking. If the man and woman are in a trusting relationship, the question changes from one of "power" to responsibility. Today, most reversible contraceptive methods (pill, rhythm, IUD, abortion) rely on the woman owning responsibility (one which they may be unwilling or unable to carry out). Male contraception relieves women of that burden.

Male contraception relieves women of that burden You would think so, but... there are women (maybe a lot of them) who think the loss of power over conception would be bad for women [0]. Read the column. I don't know about you, but it gives me a very queasy feeling. Like there is some subtext that this woman believes she should be able to force parenthood on an unwilling partner. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/commen…

I can't even...

> At the moment it is the woman who retains control over the moment at which that melting in the bones feeling is allowed to over-take the firm "no this would ruin my life" feeling in the head.

Is not the whole point of contraception insurance againt emotional losses of control?

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#292

Post by xenadu02 » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 4:37 AM UTC

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #71

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it could go faster, but the truth is this is exactly the sort of thing that should go slowly. It is much better for birth control to have a certain effectiveness, after all. Since this is an injection, probably best to have good tests with longevity as well. It isn't bad to go back every couple years for this, but this is the sort of information one needs to know upfront. Unfortunately, finding this initial st…

A problem in the US is that the company that wants to sell this is the company that needs to pay for the studies required to make it legal. However because it is so cheap, it's difficult for the company to make a profit. The same thing can be found with many supplements. For example, N-acetylcysteine has shown to be helpful in several forms of addiction and mood disorders, but because it is so cheap, no company will…

The US has orphan and rare disease programs that give bonuses to companies for tackling rare issues but you're right that we currently have a hole in the system. I wish there were a non-profit drug foundation that could go after stuff like that but I'm not aware of one.

One nit though: A ton of research is funded by the government, including drug research. We just don't have a federal program that requires commercialization of research to pay a royalty back into the program. If we did it would be a nice virtuous cycle, assuming some research continued to lead to viable products over time. Some universities have such programs in place for obvious reasons.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#293

Post by gozur88 » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 4:48 AM UTC

darklajid wrote: post #236

jwdunne wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bang on. Me and my partner were planning on me getting a vasectomy in a year, when her implant runs out. We've had to bring that forward a year because one side effect is also a symptom of cancer or polyps. After removal, she experienced a huge lift in energy levels and greater stability of mood. I have 2 children so a vasectomy isn't so bad an idea. Even still, it is an invasive and permanent treatment and I'd prefe…

As a father of two: Said procedure is incredibly harm- and painless. I understand the fear, but I've seen people (even here) spread a lot of FUD about it. If you prefer something else: Sure! If you're merely uneasy about the process: Don't be, it's so common, fast and easy.

Different people have different reactions. I've known guys who just shrugged it off, and others who were in a lot of pain for weeks.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#294

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 4:49 AM UTC

rabboRubble wrote: post #241

jwdunne wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bang on. Me and my partner were planning on me getting a vasectomy in a year, when her implant runs out. We've had to bring that forward a year because one side effect is also a symptom of cancer or polyps. After removal, she experienced a huge lift in energy levels and greater stability of mood. I have 2 children so a vasectomy isn't so bad an idea. Even still, it is an invasive and permanent treatment and I'd prefe…

Plus, unlike women, you/men can bank sperm in case you have need of it later.

[deleted]

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#295

Post by gozur88 » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 4:52 AM UTC

darklajid wrote: post #257

magic_beans wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not entirely true... I'm not saying it's even CLOSE to as easy or as cheap as collecting sperm, but woman are able to have their eggs collected and frozen for future use.

I think the GP mentioned that because this subthread discussed a "permanent" solution for men. Storing sperm might be a workaround for future "wouldn't it be nice.." regrets. An insurance. I'm not aware of mainstream (or any, really) permanent solutions for women, at least not to replace contraceptives (medical reasons - like cancer - for an invasive surgery don't count). So, if women usually don't decide to become s…

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Women can have their eggs frozen and undergo tubal ligation. That's pretty analogous to vasectomy and frozen sperm, albeit quite a bit more invasive.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#296

Post by Loomie » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 4:59 AM UTC

creepydata wrote: post #137

wayn3 wrote: post #31

- I'm not paying money to have needle injecting chemicals with unexplored potential (longterm) side effects into my private parts when the potential success rate is that of a condom. Condoms kind of work. - "The pill" is a bit more than just a contraceptive. A variety of issues, ranging from skin problems to hormonal imabalances are regulated through the pill, which quite efficiently normalizes outliers in female hor…

Stop your patronizing bullshit! I have taken the pill for years I feel like I am ruining my body. I have side effects. I switched brands, I switched to the shot (that was much worse), every one is awful. I put up with it because I won't risk unwanted pregnancy. It's the less of two very evil evils. You're also ignoring the large population of women who the pill is contraindicated for. It also requires regular doctor…

Have you considered getting a copper IUD? I switched to it 8 years ago (I'm 29) and I'll never look back. The side effects of the pill weren't so bad for me but they were enough to get the feeling it's not a good thing to mess with the hormones in my body, and I'm not good at remembering to take a pill every single day. Having my normal cycle back and not having to worry about my contraception for whole years is so worth the discomfort when inserting/changing it.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#297

Post by tptacek » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 5:38 AM UTC

patrickg_zill wrote: post #281

SamBam wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You quoted "USA/UK have lost as much as 14 IQ points since Victorian times" and cited a tabloid article. Presumably the reason that the parent commenter thought it appropriate to to mention that it was a tabloid article was because it used the standard tabloid technique of putting a sensational notion in a headline that is almost entirely unsubstantiated in the text. You offer as support several links, mostly just pr…

I covered this in my original statement with the comment about "topping up" the Flynn effect. The rest of your comment doesn't apply to my point, seeing as I was pointing out that it was easy to find the actual people at the actual uni's quoted, via simple Google searches, and that their published papers did in fact make the various claims. Thus the original response of "this is from a tabloid" added no value.

I think the only value it sought to add was to point out that the source cited was, in fact, a tabloid. I don't mean that in the sense of "it's a trashy, tabloid-like article". It may be that, or it may not be. But what I can say for sure is that it appeared under the masthead of The Daily Mail, which is, literally and uncontroversially, a tabloid.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#298

Post by sandGorgon » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 6:13 AM UTC

mrkgnao wrote: post #286

Para2016 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So from the article: "India has more married women with an unmet need for family planning than any other country, and social stigma and a lack of privacy in stores has kept condom use to less than 6 percent." Progressive acceptability maybe - but it appears Indians have very poor compliance, at least with condoms. Here's some data from the UN in 2015. India does OK compared to the rest of the world in regards to cont…

Young, educated people in Indian urban centers are essentially a demographic that doesn't need to be targeted because they're almost always sensible enough. Take away any of those three conditions, and the need for proper education among that group becomes harder -- as does the difficulty of reaching, convincing, and actually implementing any sustainable "culture of contraceptive use" among them. It's what you'd expe…

The TV based ads are almost entirely targeted towards the rural demographic. I'm not saying it's enough ...And whatever limitation exists is a consequence of lack of funds rather than intent.

The condom issue has been well known for decades. Since the 60s, contraceptive health in India has been entirely focused on women for this same reason .. as a way to give them the choice instead of asking men.

The compulsory sterilization was an extremely tiny slice of history..For which the political party in question is being punished TO THIS DAY.

You are right about the colloquialism around talking about sex. Actually it's funnier than "wee wee". There is a cultural bias against women being "impure" at a certain time of the month - and then being disallowed in the family kitchen. The marketing campaign around this was a version of "don't touch the pickle".

Point being - this is not unusual. But the Family Planning bodies in India are now masters or crafting the marketing and the messaging to bring the conversation out in the open.

They did this very successfully with contraception in villages by organizing women committees..And for sanitary napkins in schools.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#299

Post by somberi » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 6:32 AM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #150

sandGorgon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad you asked. So India in general has an extremely progressive acceptability for sex education. We have ads on national TV promoting condoms (by the govt. With Bollywood jingles) as well as female contraceptives. You can pretty much walk into any govt hospital (which are not much to look at) and get free contraceptives and contraception operative procedures. We have a huge govt funded initiative around sanitary nap…

Well, India is different I think because it's a matter of national importance. I guess the Indian government really has no other option besides forcing the idea of contraceptives onto the population. This is not a bad thing, but I just want to clarify that overpopulation is a very strong motivator, and is something that few countries in the world have to deal with.

There are two India's if you look only from rate of population growth. The four southern states have a similar accrual rates that of the west, and rate of increase in the "northern" states.

To quote the article referenced below:

"..Nine Indian states (Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Himachal Pradesh, Punjab, West Bengal, Delhi, Karnataka and Maharashtra) had fertility rates less than the replacement level of 2.1.

Kerala and Tamil Nadu, at 1.7, had lower fertility levels than Norway and the Netherlands, at 1.9 and 1.8 respectively."

http://www.indiaspend.com/cover-story/ageing-india-south-ind...

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#300

Post by lern_too_spel » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 6:42 AM UTC

jbmorgado wrote: post #99

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same could be said of female contraception, yet I don't see many people complaining about that. Why do you think that is?

Maybe because the side effects for female contraceptive pill are 99% lower than the ones for the male contraceptive "pill"? http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/30/health/male-birth-control/ I mean, one would think that anyone with the minimum sense of logical thinking would understand that it is way easier to prevent 1 (as one, singular) single egg to get fixated in the uterus during the course of 28 days, than to prevent…

The article disagrees with you. It references a study that says 30% of women stop using the pill due to adverse side effects. Fewer than 10% of men in the male pill study stopped use due to adverse side effects.