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Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

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Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#251

Post by 8note »

mjfl wrote: post #206
greghatch wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The negatives need not be so similar for the two to occupy the same space of vast property ownership concerns - namely that a single person has what many consider to be a troubling amount of wealth and power. EDIT: sentence structure change

But that's not the important part. The violence is the important part. Feudalism wasn't unjust because the kings had a lot of money, it was unjust because they got a lot of money through force and not through productive economic activity. Also, I think it is extremely problematic to compare any system with large disparities of outcome with an essentially violent system like feudalism (or just defining "inequality = v…

each system is as violent as the people running it. An ideal king is just the land owner collecting rents from the people on their land, and lending rights to people they think can make more wealth from it.

Capitalism is perfectly happy with slavery; it didn't end because it wasn't profitable.

There's still some rather violent things in today's capitalism like "give me all your money or die from cancer" which when the capitalists gave you cancer, isn't much different than the violent king forcing you to farm. You give them what they want or you die.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#252

Post by 8note »

mjfl wrote: post #240
baursak wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I kill you and take your house, and somehow escape justice before dying myself and passing said house to my son, your son forfeits any claim to the house? Correct?

I think the general consensus is that if you can identify a specific property that has been stolen from you in an estate, you can reclaim it (from the estate). But claims against someone who purchased the stolen goods unknowingly, or general claims from one group to another, like a common English person against the Queen, a colored person against a random white man, or a Palestinian against an Israelite, those are no…

General consensus of people who've benefitted from said stealing*

In each of the cases you listed, the person who would've had claims against them has power over the plaintiff

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#253

Post by rifung »

drewrv wrote: post #80
seizethecheese wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle has one of the lowest amounts of sun per year of all metros in the USA. It selects for those who are serious about work, more than weather.

The weather isn't that bad here. It's overcast a lot and there are a lot of "rainy" days but it's usually a light mist or sprinkle. It rarely drops below freezing in the winter and the summers, while short, have long days and are quite dry. Maybe the bay area has better weather but I'd take Seattle weather over most of the US (Chicago, Austin, NY, DC, etc)

Perhaps this is because I am from California, but having lived in Seattle for the last 3 years, the hardest part isn't the rain or cold but the lack of sun.

My previous manager at Amazon told me he recommended everyone who came from California to take a vacation back during the winter lest they get too depressed.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#254

Post by sumedh »

andrepd wrote: post #215
pfisch wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He provided more economic/productive value to the world than 100,000,000s of people. Idk about "working hard" or "merit" because who cares if someone has to work super hard for 2 days to produce the same results another person can produce in 10 minutes.

Nope, Bezos didn't create more value than 100,000,000s of people. How could he? He started it, sure, he owns it and he directs it, but Amazon employs 341,000 people. Those are the people who generate the bulk of the value produced by the Amazon company, yet they share in very little of the value they produced. Would you say a CEO is responsible for all the value the company makes? Would you say it's fair for a feudal…

> yet they share in very little of the value they produced.

Those employees are free to start their own companies. If you take the risk of starting a business then you should get the rewards if it succeeds.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#255

Post by dkrich »

I know that I'll get skewered for this, but here goes: recently I've convinced myself we are on the verge of a very serious Amazon stock correction. Just today I saw three separate articles (without seeking them out) giving umpteen reasons Amazon is going to a trillion, or that Amazon is only getting started. Then I turned on CNBC during lunch and what are they talking about? Amazon.

There's simply too much positive sentiment around this company and it makes me very nervous. It reminds me of 2007 when everyone was making a killing on real estate and the idea was laughable that the market would reverse. The stock is way overbought and the only questions I have are "by how much?" And "when is the reversal coming?"

There are other reasons I'm skeptical about Amazon remaining at its current valuation. One major one is that the meteoric rise in the stock price has coincided nicely with the economic recovery. Amazon's ecommerce business is one that's built for good times. It remains to be seen how they fare in downtimes. What I mean by that is that much of what I see people buy on Amazon (myself included) are largely frivolous gadgets that one simply wouldn't buy in a time of economic fear. Right now people largely feel wealthy and feel comfortable shelling out for prime memberships and willing to pay a premium for convenience. In a down economy that's the first thing to go.

Of course a down economy will weigh heavily on most companies, but I believe especially so on Amazon because it is a stock that is already overbought and relies on people buying shit they don't need for the sake of convenience.

Apart from that I believe they will face increasing competition from Alibaba, Walmart, and others.

Finally, there are the numbers. Despite the $400+ billion valuation, Amazon did less that a billion in profit from their ecommerce business last quarter! The stock shot up because that was higher than analysts predicted!

I have serious doubts about the long term profitability of Amazon's ecommerce business. Physical delivery of goods, particularly last mile delivery is just too expensive. Sure, drones might come but I wouldn't base an investment on that hope.

My prediction is that an economic downturn is going to send this stock into a tailspin.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#256

Post by candiodari »

ruleabidinguser wrote: post #141
DamnYuppie wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throughout human history there has never been a time where those in power, regardless of how obtained, didn't turn to violence and subterfuge to maintain it.

Have you experienced violence from those in power? Its so easy to spread fear when you haven't used your brain. And have you considered how much of your lifestyle, the best parts of your lifestyle, is impossible under any system other than capitalism? I can't think of a better vehicle for diversity and indeed there certainly isn't one. It's almost insulting when people so casually dismiss these things.

I have had things stolen from me by someone else and tried to get police help with that.

And I've also stolen things from both poor and from large businesses and:

a) confessed to it (thankfully before 18 years old, my advice from the experience : do not ever, ever, ever do this, no matter how obvious the situation is)

b) gotten away with it

Comparing the reactions of the authorities between what happened when I offended a large business, who wanted to make an example (I didn't realize this at the time but they never even want restitution or the stolen item back), and what happened when I tried to recover my own stolen property and attempted in vain to get ANYTHING done (other than "fill in this paper and add to this huge stack here")

Just a piece of advice : DO NOT learn kids to not steal by having them return a stolen item, unless you know and trust the store owner.

Does this count as violence ?

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#257

Post by [deleted] »

_m8fo wrote: post #84

Everytime I see these types of articles I wonder if we're still in feudalism. Should we really be celebrating that a single individual is worth more than hundreds of millions of people[1]? I dunno, it seems dystopian , like we're enslaved to the system. [1] https://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pressreleases/2017-01-16/...

[deleted]

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#258

Post by Illniyar »

_m8fo wrote: post #84

Everytime I see these types of articles I wonder if we're still in feudalism. Should we really be celebrating that a single individual is worth more than hundreds of millions of people[1]? I dunno, it seems dystopian , like we're enslaved to the system. [1] https://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pressreleases/2017-01-16/...

It might or might not be unjust, but feudalism is all about the hierarchy of oaths- it is about distribution of power - you give power to those sworn to you and in turn they give it to those beneath them.

Jeff bezos having lots of money is an oligarchy, not feudalism.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#259

Post by Retra »

sumedh wrote: post #254
andrepd wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, Bezos didn't create more value than 100,000,000s of people. How could he? He started it, sure, he owns it and he directs it, but Amazon employs 341,000 people. Those are the people who generate the bulk of the value produced by the Amazon company, yet they share in very little of the value they produced. Would you say a CEO is responsible for all the value the company makes? Would you say it's fair for a feudal…

> yet they share in very little of the value they produced. Those employees are free to start their own companies. If you take the risk of starting a business then you should get the rewards if it succeeds.

It was far less risky for Bezos to start his business than most of his current employees. He was wealthy before he started.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#260

Post by wtf_is_up »

milesrout wrote: post #243
mjfl wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a little hyperbolic. In feudalism the balance of power is enforced by violence, whereas Jeff Bezos got rich because you gave him money in exchange for products. Like, "Hey, here's this cool electronic device called the Amazon Echo for $50." is a markedly different from "Farm here or I'll decapitate you." The fact that you harbor a resentment as if the former is anything like the latter is slightly terr…

That's an incredibly naive view of things. To not recognise that Jeff Bezos's wealth is the product of a violent system is wilfully ignorant.

Not an argument.
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