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The Deck ad network is shutting down

decknetwork.net

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Re: The Deck ad network is shutting down

#51

Post by caseysoftware »

cookiecaper wrote: post #48
eldavido wrote: post #17

This seems to fit the narrative of a broader wave of consolidation hitting the old-school web. Like it or not, there are real advantages to walled gardens like facebook. To ad buyers, it's a single platform where one can target the entire world person-by-person -- even across multiple devices (iPad, phone, laptop), with hyper-accurate segmentation and user tracking, strong identity services with all the abuse/spam pr…

You don't need a walled garden for that. You would need some client-side listeners. Walled gardens arise because our legal system incentivizes it. Network effects are unnatural online. There is no barrier to access or information flow here -- put simply, there are no real walls to protect the garden. They're all artificially imposed barriers. With improved laws, no one would be able to hold the web-accessible data ho…

> Network effects are unnatural online.

I find this line ironic since the Network Effect (or Metcalfe's Law) was created to describe literal computer networks.

Network effects don't happen in the physical world nearly as easily because the bar, grocery store, or whatever is limited by geography. They can only address a population within a certain radius and can't grow beyond it.

Transportation hubs - like airports - may be an exception because the more places you can get from one airport, the more likely you are to use that airport.. if you even have a choice.

Re: The Deck ad network is shutting down

#54

Post by pavel_lishin »

bazillion wrote: post #39
bgarbiak wrote: post #9

Whenever I noticed that a site I'm visiting is "powered" by DECK, I was whitelisting it in the adblock. I hate ads, but I totally get that they keep things going in the Net, and so if there have to be ads they should be like the DECK: no tracking, no profiling, no being invasive. It's really a shame that an opposite of that triumphs today. In the long term it's gonna be painful for the users, for publishers, for the…

I'm curious what you think of my ad network[1] -- it allows for native ads that are non-intrusive and actually benefit the user. When you hover over an item in an image, an ad is displayed, but hovering off of it makes it go away. Here is an example video showing that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_oTtDUV0yI Although the ads aren't blocked by ad blockers, if they were, would you unblock them? Also would love any…

That's interesting, but very jarring.

Like looking at a car out the bus window, and then suddenly someone leaning over your shoulder, whispering "psst, buddy, wanna buy that car?"

Re: The Deck ad network is shutting down

#55

Post by TIMECUB3 »

eldavido wrote: post #17

This seems to fit the narrative of a broader wave of consolidation hitting the old-school web. Like it or not, there are real advantages to walled gardens like facebook. To ad buyers, it's a single platform where one can target the entire world person-by-person -- even across multiple devices (iPad, phone, laptop), with hyper-accurate segmentation and user tracking, strong identity services with all the abuse/spam pr…

I'm confused. What aren't you pleased about? An ad network shutting down? Hopefully they all shut down.

Re: The Deck ad network is shutting down

#56

Post by cookiecaper »

caseysoftware wrote: post #51
cookiecaper wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need a walled garden for that. You would need some client-side listeners. Walled gardens arise because our legal system incentivizes it. Network effects are unnatural online. There is no barrier to access or information flow here -- put simply, there are no real walls to protect the garden. They're all artificially imposed barriers. With improved laws, no one would be able to hold the web-accessible data ho…

> Network effects are unnatural online. I find this line ironic since the Network Effect (or Metcalfe's Law) was created to describe literal computer networks. Network effects don't happen in the physical world nearly as easily because the bar, grocery store, or whatever is limited by geography. They can only address a population within a certain radius and can't grow beyond it. Transportation hubs - like airports -…

>I find this line ironic since the Network Effect (or Metcalfe's Law) was created to describe literal computer networks.

The distinction is that it refers to physical networks (and iirc, referred initially to phone systems, not computer systems per se). At layer 1, the network effect is still very much valid and caused by the capabilities of the physical hardware. This is forgotten because today everyone is plugged into the same network. This was not always the case.

Because Metcalfe's Law exists, people have misunderstood it to apply to cyberspace and incorrectly believed it's simply the way things have to be. This is not so.

The compatibility concern at the core of real network effects, where the hardware buy will be dictated by what the most neighbors have, are not relevant once you have a physical hookup.

In cyberspace, layers 2 and up, there is no physical limitation on compatibility. There are only digits (hence the term "digital") upon which computations are made (hence "computers"). If the correct computations can be performed (i.e., if you possess hardware that can convert the electrical pulses to the expected digits and software (drivers, browsers, etc.) that can decode the digits to match expectations), the desired data can be presented.

Since network effects refer exclusively to physical compatibility, we only see this in the digital realm because it's artificially imposed. The law says that anyone who tries to extricate data from, e.g., Facebook will be severely punished, despite the fact that Facebook does not have a copyright interest in the data, and that as long as such extrication is done responsibly, it would have 0 impact on Facebook's ability to conduct its operations.

That's an artificial barrier that we've concocted, and it's the only mechanism by which network effects can work in cyberspace. Without the legal risk, people would read the data out from Facebook and recast, repopulate, etc. in alternate hypermedia. People would also make writable interfaces available. Facebook would then have to compete on its ability to provide a superior user experience, like most other businesses, not the availability of the data that they've misappropriated from users.

Social networks like Facebook have forced themselves between the open network and the data that used to be exposed to it, insisting that all traffic must be subject to their conditions. There's no reason to allow that!

Once the online marketplace is subject to the same types of competition that exist in the physical marketplace, i.e., once everyone is allowed to compete over the same core of knowledge, things are going to drastically improve.

Re: The Deck ad network is shutting down

#57

Post by 8note »

jonathankoren wrote: post #22
DLarsen wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CTR isn't the only KPI by which ads are sold. These days, publishers understand that ads still influence even if normal users don't actually click. When a purchase is preceded by an impression from my ad network, in some cases I can get credit for a portion of it.

Agree that CTR isn't the main metric that matters from a business perspective, but it's the one to verify the statement "no one clicks on banners".

Isn't that the wrong question?

what I'd really like to know is whether banners are a worthwhile investment, not if they get clicked on.

Re: The Deck ad network is shutting down

#58

Post by parennoob »

Could anyone in the know comment on whether their invite-only nature contributed to this? I have wanted to have Deck Network ads on my sites forever, but there was no real way to do so. They seemed to be restricted to inviting only Apple-themed blogs and sites, plus maybe their peripheral network.

I wonder if having a somewhat more clear and easy vetting process would have helped expand their reach somewhat.

Re: The Deck ad network is shutting down

#59

Post by GuiA »

TIMECUB3 wrote: post #55
eldavido wrote: post #17

This seems to fit the narrative of a broader wave of consolidation hitting the old-school web. Like it or not, there are real advantages to walled gardens like facebook. To ad buyers, it's a single platform where one can target the entire world person-by-person -- even across multiple devices (iPad, phone, laptop), with hyper-accurate segmentation and user tracking, strong identity services with all the abuse/spam pr…

I'm confused. What aren't you pleased about? An ad network shutting down? Hopefully they all shut down.

The Deck was one of the few clean players.

I still fundamentally think advertising is slime, a form of mind control, and a symptom of excess consumption in society, but that's not changing anytime soon. In the meantime, I'd be very happy if everyone were like The Deck.

Re: The Deck ad network is shutting down

#60

Post by deep_12 »

GuiA wrote: post #59
TIMECUB3 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. What aren't you pleased about? An ad network shutting down? Hopefully they all shut down.

The Deck was one of the few clean players. I still fundamentally think advertising is slime, a form of mind control, and a symptom of excess consumption in society, but that's not changing anytime soon. In the meantime, I'd be very happy if everyone were like The Deck.

https://youtu.be/z8wWuLnj6JI Finally Sunil Grover fight back with Kapil sharma watch the video
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